From ai815@freenet.carleton.caThu Feb 1 08:18:59 1996 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 05:36:33 -0500 From: Greg Erwin To: 72724.3223@compuserve.com, depearce@lexmark.com, chazlett@infinet.com Subject: January 1996 Nullifidian ############################################################ ############################################################ ______ / / / / / /__ __ / / ) (__ / / (__(__ __ |\ ( ) ) / / | \ | / / . _/_ . __ / . __ __ | \ | / / / / ) / ) / / ) __ ) / ) ) \| (__(__(___(__(__(___(__(__(__(__(__(__/ (__ =========================================================== *The*E-Zine*of*Atheistic*Secular*Humanism*and*Freethought** =========================================================== now available at http://infoweb.magi.com/~godfree/ ############################################################ ##### Volume III, Number 1 ##### ################### ISSN 1201-0111 ####################### ####################### JAN 1996 ########################### nullifidian, n. & a. (Person) having no religious faith or belief. [f. med. L _nullifidius_ f. L _nullus_ none + _fides_ faith; see -IAN] Concise Oxford Dictionary The purpose of this magazine is to provide a source of articles dealing with many aspects of humanism. We are ATHEISTIC as we do not believe in the actual existence of any supernatural beings or any transcendental reality. We are SECULAR because the evidence of history and the daily horrors in the news show the pernicious and destructive consequences of allowing religions to be involved with politics or government. We are HUMANISTS and we focus on what is good for humanity, in the real world. We will not be put off with offers of pie in the sky, bye and bye. ============================================================ TABLE OF CONTENTS 1. Absolute morality 2. How to get rid of Door-to-door Missionaries 3. Interview with Wayne Aiken, creator of the Atheist Fortune Cookie File 4. Criticism of last months' article on Buddhism, by mathew ========================== //*BEGINNING OF ARTICLE*// ========================== Absolute morality The only absolute morality is surrender to another's will. Bully-worshippers, whether they are sycophantic courtiers to a king, or grovelling petitioners to a god, have an absolute moral code: whatever the bully says to do, do it! The god speaks through those that claim to be its authorized representatives, the priests. When you accept that whatever some other person says is the definition of morality; at that point, you no longer have to make any decisions. You certainly don't have to check out consequences or have empathy for those affected by your decisions. By obfuscating the inevitable contradictions, inconsistencies and changes coming from your chosen source; by denying the cruelty, sadness, and other evil consequences which occur; by threatening any, including yourself, who dare to doubt, and by creative use of words, draining all coherent meaning from them, you can achieve the christian claim of an absolute morality. Of course, in the real world, it doesn't exist. I don't think that it is necessary to show that every religion is actually completely flexible on every moral and ethical question. This is obvious at a glance from their history. The only tenet that the priest insists on is that of obedience. Maybe that and killing off the believers of other religions. Heresy, schism and apostasy would get you burned when churches had that power; killing, rape and theft were forgivable. In fact, there isn't a church around that hasn't promoted or condoned all three, and virtually every other crime, in the right circumstances. The attraction which the phrase "absolute morality" has for people is its promise of escape from responsibility. No more will you be forced to decide what is right and what is wrong. Someone else will tell you. Of course, this involves, it demands a renunciation of being human, which is why the religious often do such inhumane things. It is a necessary consequence of the renunciation of human-ness. Being human means experiencing uncertainty and doubt. The truth of the matter is that there is nothing, not one act, which is absolutely and perfectly good; or one that is absolutely 100% bad. Even a mother feeding a baby gets tired and feels occasional pain, though she may suffer this gladly, she still suffers. On the other hand, it would be callous to look for the "good side" of something like the death of a child, but isn't this what everyone does, afterwards, in an attempt to extract some meaning from the death? We would rather pretend and have authority figures assure us that there are those who are absolutely evil, and who are responsible for everything that goes wrong. Preferably, they are easily identifiable, perhaps by color, perhaps because they are different in some other way. This is easier to handle than the idea that ordinary people, people just like ourselves, can do horrible things. We would rather pretend that we have never done such things, and never could. Maybe one attraction of this surrender is that we might actually get to do some of those horrible things without being responsible for the consequences. Is this what draws people unfortunate enough to live in peaceable times to doomsday cults and paranoid militias? If the end of the world is coming soon, or the world is run by a huge, secret conspiracy, then there won't be time for consequences. You're free to do what the church (or movement) tells you to do. If these are the end times, then there isn't time to think about it, only time to obey. This is also the attraction, for some, of a military situation. In the midst of a battle, an individual soldier's only hope is that the officer in charge knows what he is doing. Blind obedience is probably the best strategy in such a situation. It is not a guarantee of being saved, but those who do not, will not be around either to complain or to demonstrate that there were other methods of getting through. In our daily lives, we do have time to think things over, time to revise our opinions, time to view the consequences of our acts. There are many who see such review as an admission that they might have been mistaken. It is. It is a recognition that we often must act, choose or decide without perfect information, and, in consequence, may do so incorrectly. If we admit this, we can correct the mistakes. Those who claim to have the One True Answer, whether it is christianity or communism, or the gospel according to the World Bank, cannot admit to this possibility and will insist on the Truth that their morality is absolute, unchanging and error-free. Therefore, any challenge to a previous decision is deemed an immoral act in itself. Rather than admit to the possibility of a mistake on the part of a structure which is, by definition, incapable of mistakes, being divine, any other explanation will be seized upon. For instance, one person can be scapegoated. This individual, upon whom the blame for the incorrect decision can be laid, can be found to have been a willing or unwilling agent of the Enemy, whether the Enemy is Satan or the international bourgeoisie. If "unwilling," he may be reinstated, after suitable repentance, punishment and indication of submission. Why waste a good slave? Or, the protestors can be silenced. The Catholic Church has threatened the parents of abused children, implying that attacks on priests are attacks on the Church, and thus place the parents in the position of being enemies of God. In the old days, when the Church had access to civil power, it used civil power: the rack, the dungeon, the stake; only now is it reduced to mere curses and threats of damnation. Or, the church (all else failing) can change its moral position, without admitting it. Few churches any longer support slavery, but the texts supporting slavery remain in the bible, as the word of god. Few churches believe the earth is flat, but the verses stating that view remain. We no longer think it moral to kill off the families and relations of criminals, but the tribal societies that wrote the bible lived by vendetta, and the verses that record such actions remain. We no longer think that god is appeased by blood sacrifice, but it remains the core doctrine of christianity. Also fossilized in the bible, like grotesque atavistic monsters, are the inferiority of women, support for faith healing, polygyny, genocide, absolute monarchy, hatred of all outsiders, support for capital punishment for trivial offences, child abuse, belief in religious INtolerance, belief in base superstitions like witchcraft, astrology, fortunetelling and racism. Absolute morality is a delusion. It is a meaningless noise uttered by believers to indicate their conformity to doctrine and dogma. Like the similarly creedal statement, "I believe in the Trinity," which no one understands or can explain: the words have no meaning. They serve the same function as any other ritual act, like all going into a large building at the same time, on the same day; or all laying face down in the dirt five times a day, pointing in the same direction; it separates the world into Us and Them. Intelligence is the only moral guide. We alone are responsible for our moral decisions. ==================== //*END OF ARTICLE*// ==================== "We tend to scoff at the beliefs of the ancients. But we can't scoff at them personally, to their faces, and this is what annoys me." [Jack Handey] ========================== //*BEGINNING OF ARTICLE*// ========================== How to get rid of Door-to-door Missionaries Susan Polizzi (spolizzi@carroll1.cc.edu) sent this to REHU-L (Religious Humor List). I forward it for your further amusement. ---------- Forwarded message ---------- I think I found this on the FunnyBone page on the net...It originally referred to a specific group who tend to want to camp on your front doorstep, but I think it may be applicable to all kind of folk, including magazine sales- persons. -------------------------------------- * A chalk outline of a human body on the sidewalk, and a few copies of The Watchtower scattered around... * My mother (a second-generation atheist) used to say (in a very sweet voice): "I'm sorry, I don't give a damn about Jesus." Worked every time. The missionaries just backed off the porch in slack-jawed, bug-eyed disbelief. * Agreed, we are not prepared for this one, but it has to be carried off perfectly. The more sincere you appear, the more baffled the missionary will be: Answer the door with an automatic weapon and say "Allah be Praised!!!" and just see what happens. * Automatic weapons are undeniably the best deterrent to missionaries. For extra effect, fire a few rounds into the air or towards their car. * Pretend you hear a voice inside your head telling you to kill the missionary. Guaranteed to stop future visits for several years. * The young couple came to my door. I was wearing my robe, and had just awakened. Now let me explain, I am a very unusual looking person anyway, but when I awake, I look like some kind of movie monster, I have hair all over everywhere. I made my eyes real piercing, and stared past them. I knew who they were, you can tell, they look so cute in their getup and their bland faces.Well the female one obviously is supposed to do the introduction because she sort of panicked, and said: "We're...we're...we're..we're....we're...." And then she stared helplessly at the other one and he said: "uh... uh.... uh... uh..."I then did a really fierce grin and stuck out my hand in a very fast gesture, and opened all my fingers, and in a voice sort of a mixture between Peter Lore and Lurch, I said: I... WILL... TAKE... YOUR...LITERATURE... AND... GIVE... IT... TO... MY... MASTER. The male one quickly handed me a copy of whatever rag they were peddling. they did not ask for a donation. They ran. It's a true story, and they never came back. * A friend claims that when missionaries knock on her door, her first response is to ask for their address. When they ask why she wants to know, she says it is so she can visit them to push her beliefs. So far, none of them have given their address. It also marks the end of the interview. SLAM! * A guy goes up to my friend's friend and asks, "Can I talk to you about God?" She says, "Sure, what would you like to know?" * Missionary ladies come to the door. One of them has small child in tow. Interrupts SIW's dinner. If you knew SIW like I knew SIW, you wouldn't do that. SIW: Thank you, but I already have a religion. Missionary: May I ask what it is? SIW: I'd really rather not say. {Pregnant pause} I'm not sure if it's legal in this country. Supposedly they gave her a real strange look on their way back down the stairs. * I answer the door with a bloody knife and say, "I'm sorry, could you come back in a half hour? We're not done with the virgin yet." //*END OF ARTICLE*// "The meme for blind faith secures its own perpetuation by the simple unconscious expedient of discouraging rational inquiry." [Richard Dawkins, _The Selfish Gene_] //*BEGINNING OF ARTICLE*// =========================================================== Interview with Wayne Aiken, creator of the Atheist Fortune Cookie File Profiles in Freethought On-Line The Person Behind the Atheist Fortune Cookie File, The Nullifidian presents: An Interview with Wayne Aiken. The Nullifidian: How did you get started with the Atheist Fortune Cookie file? Aiken: I have collected quotes for quite some time; a couple of years ago, I noticed that a fair number of the quotes were directly relevant to atheism and freethought, so I decided to create a single archive file dedicated to that topic. I also wanted a special place to store all of the interesting .signature quotes that I saw in messages on alt.atheism and other newsgroups. The file quickly grew, so I decided to make it publicly available. For those not familiar with the term "fortune cookie", this refers to an old Unix program which would randomly select a quotation from a large text file of quotations. This was usually done at log-in time, so that users were greeted with a variety of different messages when they signed in, much like the randomness of messages in the famous Chinese dessert cookies. Computer files containing suitably formatted text quotations became known as "fortune cookie files". A it now stands, the quotes file contains a huge number of quotations covering aspects of atheist philosophy, biblical criticism, history, law, science, psychology, the religious mindset, and humor. Although it was originally simply an archive of quotes, many people have found it directly useful as a source of information. Toward that end, I am also attempting, whenever possible, to increase the accuracy of the citations, and although the quotes file itself is a handy pointer, it doesn't replace the research and reading necessary to fully understand the context of the original author's statements. Nor does it substitute for more detailed and substantial arguments--some of the religious could trade quotes back and forth without proving anything. But, it does make an enjoyable and informative read, and its hard to read it without coming away with some new idea or perspective. Nullifidian: How many years has this been going on? Aiken: For about two years, although I have been reading and participating in the newsgroups for much longer. Nullifidian: Every web crawler and net surfer will wonder, how much of your time does this use up? Aiken: Not very much, compared to the amount of time that I normally spend reading messages in the atheism-related newsgroups. If I see an interesting quote in a message, I save it. Every couple of weeks I go into those saved messages and extract, format, and merge the new quotes. It only takes a couple of hours a month to do this. I occasionally research a quote, or search for quotes in freethought material, which takes a bit of time. They key to maintaining and enlarging the file is simply keeping up with the newsgroups on a fairly consistent basis. The messages are a terrific source of material on all subjects, although there is also a fair amount of garbage to wade through. I must also give credit to the many people who have directly contributed their various collections--I consider myself simply a compiler rather than author of this work, and it's definitely a group effort. Nullifidian: What is your religious background? (If you had one) How did you get from there to where you are now? Aiken: I was fortunate to be raised in a home that was non-religious, although to my knowledge everyone considered themselves a believer. It simply wasn't an issue--it was never discussed or explicitly practiced, and I wasn't pressured in any way about going to church. When I was about 10 or 11, I briefly went with my grandfather to a Methodist church, chiefly out of curiosity. I went to Sunday School, and he went to the Fellowship meeting, although we never once attended the following services. I quickly grew bored and stopped going. He stopped going when his friends began meeting at a local restaurant/coffee shop instead. What little religious belief I had was of no relevance to daily life, and I remained this way through college. It would be truly hard to find a more passive and non-practicing believer. It wasn't until I was exposed to the more direct and active believers that I even saw any need to question any of it. Exposure to fundamentalists on computer BBS's, watching evangelist TV shows, and Pat Robertson's bid for the office of President in 1988, were all events which awakened my interest in the subject. The more I looked and questioned, the more I suspected that religious ideologies were inventions and frauds of massive proportions. I was impressed by the Wiccans and other "neo-pagans" for their resolve to stand up against the prevailing Christianity, and I saw that they had a clearly superior ethic as well. I couldn't, however, bring myself to accept the metaphysical aspects of it, and when I delved into it from a philosophical viewpoint, I realized that the god-idea, from whatever angle, was unsupportable and unnecessary. By the time that I read some of Ayn Rand's philosophical works, I had essentially reached the same conclusions regarding the invalidity of mysticism. However, I was also aware that this isn't a mere intellectual game--there are any number of groups who are doing their best to seize control of this society. Since that time, I have been involved in protests, marches, public-access shows on atheism, calling politicians, participating in newsgroups, and enough other activities to put me in the "militant atheist" category. Pat Buchanan was quite right- there is a culture war going on, and I am increasingly convinced that at this point in time, doing nothing helps only the religious groups trying to force their way back into power. Nullifidian: What do you do in real life? What are your plans for the future? Aiken: I am a computer programmer/analyst, and I've also had various experiences at hardware design, computer repair, network maintenance and administration, and a variety of other computer-related tasks. I currently work for a large NC manufacturing company, in one of their subsidiaries which makes turnkey PC-based applications. Although I love the bigger cities, my plans for the immediate future are to stay here in North Carolina. I attended North Carolina State Univ. in Raleigh, and I've been here ever since. North Carolina has a terrible reputation, with our infamous senator, hate/racist groups, and provincial religious power groups, but things are getting better, and overall, most people are tolerant and considerate. Nullifidian: What are your personal circumstances? Married? children? Aiken: I am not married, currently living the overworked computer jock lifestyle. This seems to be one of several professions with large percentages of unbelievers. Nullifidian: How long can we expect to keep finding the Atheist/Freethought Fortune Cookie File on line? Aiken: I plan to have some kind of network account for the foreseeable future, and as long as I'm able, I also plan to keep updating the quotes file. The Cookie File is safely stored and available from several network sites worldwide, so it doesn't depend on me personally having an account. Nullifidian: Do you have a web page? Aiken: Not yet. I may have something soon though. Nullifidian: If someone seeks immortality by getting a clever saying (or asinine saying should they be religious) quoted in your file, where should they post or otherwise hang out? What is the best way for people to send additions or corrections? I can always be reached by e-mail at slack@ncsu.edu for anyone wanting to directly submit any material. It is highly probable that I will see quotes in postings in the newsgroups alt.atheism, talk.atheism, soc.atheism, or alt.atheism.moderated, but for deliberate submissions, its best to e-mail it directly to me. Nullifidian: Do you have a favorite "good" quote? A favorite "bad" quote? Aiken: A couple of my favorites, from the quotes file, are: "The idea of God implies the abdication of human reason and justice; it is the most decisive negation of human liberty and necessarily ends in the enslavement of mankind both in theory and practice. He who desires to worship God must harbor no childish illusions about the matter but bravely renounce his liberty and humanity." [Mikhail Bakunin] "Do you want real TRUTH in capital letters? Then search yourself for why you believe the things you do. Don't be afraid to analyze why your religion gives you the high it does. Answer yourself this question: Is TRUTH important enough for me to give up my religion if that is required? Until you answer yes to this you are not being honest with yourself." [Dave Trissel] As for the religious, many times its best to simply let them hang themselves with their own words. Despite the Christian Coalition's attempts to whitewash their image nowadays, Operation Rescue founder Terry Randall expresses its true essence: "Let a wave of intolerance wash over you. I want you to let a wave of hatred wash over you. Yes, hate is good.... If a Christian voted for Clinton, he sinned against God. It's that simple.... Our goal is a Christian Nation... we have a biblical duty, we are called by God to conquer this country. We don't want equal time. We don't want Pluralism. We want theocracy. Theocracy means God rules. I've got a hot flash. God rules." [Randall Terry, Head of Operation Rescue, Fort Wayne, Indiana, Aug 15, 1993] Nullifidian: Which evangelist strikes you as the most amusing? Why? Aiken: Without a doubt, Robert Tilton was the most hilarious preacher ever. I've never seen such an outrageous, transparent, self-parody. His style was so exaggerated and hilarious, that it transcended comedy itself. We may never see another one like him again. I'm also disappointed that Dr. Gene Scott is no longer on the air where I live. He had to be one of the most laid-back people I've ever seen on TV, preacher or not. Nullifidian: Which church, or other religious organization strikes you as the biggest menace to the country or to humanity at the moment? The most amusing? Stupidest? There may be multiple answers possible, and perhaps, necessary. Aiken: A tremendous amount of media attention was paid to the Bakker and Swaggart scandals, but for the most part, the media has paid correspondingly little to the truly dangerous political aspirations of Robertson and elements of the "Christian Coalition". The media may not be exactly friendly to them, but they have done so little to expose these groups, that sometimes I fear that real investigative journalism might be dead in this country. The former groups do exact their toll on the human condition, in the form of greed and stupidity, but control is the most dangerous. It is my opinion that groups are a threat to life and freedom to the direct degree that they attempt to enforce their particular beliefs through the government. The Religious Right, despite their calls for less government and an end to welfare, have no problem with government enforcing *their* values and subsidizing *their* institutions with vouchers and tax privileges. There are clearly big problems with this country, and a great deal of the animosity toward government abuses are more than justified. The strategy of the Right is to ride this wave of popular discontent into office, where they can act upon the less public parts of their agenda. Its a brilliant strategy, and the potential for mischief is enormous. We have seen similar ideological groups do the same thing, with predictable results, in the earlier part of this century. And then, there's the Pope, who was born about 500 years too late. However, I find it encouraging and somewhat amusing, that a great many American members of the church have a nasty habit of thinking and acting for themselves. So much so, that a large part of his last few visits to the US have been dedicated to scolding and cajoling not only the rank and file, but the clergy as well. Worldwide, however, his organization is still in the human misery business, and the amount of power the church wields in the third world is incredible. We can only hope that countries can come to their senses and resist this influence, as the people of Ireland recently--and courageously--did. I could go on and on. New threats crop up all the time, like the vicious censorship-oriented Scientology cult's efforts to silence critics on the Internet. I suspect that in 50 years, there will be even more, new and improved, groups trying the same things. I have a very strong life-and-let-live attitude, as I suspect many Americans do, so these groups might not succeed in the long run, but I'm worried that they might cause a ton of trouble before they're stopped. Nullifidian: In which secret conspiracies do you participate? When can ordinary atheistic secular humanists expect to finally receive some benefits from the secret humanist conspiracy gang running the government and the media? Currently, no doubt as part of some grand subterfuge, religious people appear to be getting all the breaks. Aiken: That's a whole 'nother can of worms. There are secret societies out there, some religions masquerading as jokes, some jokes masquerading as religions. I've had my fair share of fun in that scene, and without getting into it too far, which would take volumes, I'd like to mention some of the more popular ones: Discordianism, very similar to the Merry Pranksters, follows the philosophy of Eris, the goddess of chaos, albeit extremely loosely. They advocate a *very* healthy distrust of authority, and the "sacred" book, the Principia Discordia, is a masterful blend of common sense and Monty Python-style comedy.(1) (1) The Principia Discordia is available on-line at: http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~tilt/principia/ The Church of the SubGenius, a more recent successor to the Discordians, is a much harder-edged satire on nearly every facet of life in the late 20th century. As perhaps the ultimate reductio ad absurdum, this "cult" centers around the modern messiah J.R. "Bob" Dobbs, a pipe-smoking millionaire prophet who talks to UFOs. Church doctrine, and the many "devivals" held around the country each year, are a roller-coaster ride of profound truth as presented through trash culture and bad taste. Universal Life Church is Kirby Hensley's creation, which is now in the process of ordaining as many people as possible. As possibly the most lenient organization possible, its possible to become a real, legally-recognized "minister" by simply agreeing to uphold freedom of religion, and to do what's "right", whatever you consider that to be. Its a great statement regarding the arbitrariness of religious "authority", and it goes a good way toward taking the steam out of the special privileges and status of clergy, if *everybody*, even atheists, can be one with no effort. You can even be "ordained" online, with their new web page at http://www.ulc.org/ Nullifidian: Can you send a picture? JPEG or GIF attachment would be fine. I'll see what I can do- I have a picture of myself picketing the Pope this past October. If it scans ok, I'll send it in a separate message. Nullifidian: Any closing comments? Aiken: That pretty much wraps it up. Also, in the interview, you might mention that the quote file is available on the web at: http://www.best.com/~gauci/ http://www.freethought.tamu and FTP at: ftp.mantis.co.uk:pub/alt.atheism/reference and, freethought.tamu.edu:pub standard .sig file for aiken is: Holy Temple of Mass$ >>> slack@ncsu.edu <<< $"My used underwear Consumption! $ $ is legal tender in PO Box 30904 $ BBS: (919) 954-5028 $ 28 countries!" Raleigh, NC 27622 $Warning: I hoard pennies.$ --"Bob" ================== ||END OF ARTICLE|| ================== "The time appears to me to have come when it is the duty of all to make their dissent from religion known." [John Stuart Mill] ========================== //*BEGINNING OF ARTICLE*// ========================== Criticism of last months' article on Buddhism > BUDDHISM >by: tmwe@maths.nott.ac.uk Tim Eyre [...] I feel a need to comment on Tim's article. It's perhaps unfortunate that he chose to criticize Buddhism based on the ideas of karma and rebirth, as those are probably the Buddhist teachings which are most often misunderstood by non-Buddhists. > 1. Why are there so many people around > nowadays? The world population is increasing > explosively. This would imply that animals are > behaving themselves and being reincarnated as > humans while fewer humans are being 'relegated' > to animal status. In the light of the atrocities > committed in the 20th Century, this seems > unlikely. The simple concept of reincarnation is that each person has a soul, and that when the person dies that soul is reborn as a new entity. Introductory texts about Buddhism often speak in such terms, but I believe that the reality of Buddhist teaching is rather different. In particular, Buddhism absolutely rejects the idea of "self"; there is no single unique entity which is the soul or consciousness of a given person. Most texts on Buddhism stress this, but don't deal with the seeming contradiction between this and the idea of rebirth. The answer is that individual souls or consciousnesses are viewed as emergent phenomena. The books I've read have used many metaphors to explain this; the best, I think, is as follows: Imagine consciousness as an ocean. An individual consciousness is like a wave moving across that ocean. The idea of "self" is a mistake because you can't really draw lines to say where one wave ends and another begins. When a person dies, the wave sinks or collapses, but the parts of the ocean of consciousness which made up that person will go on to be a part of new waves. There will be a tendency for parts of the ocean which were close together in one wave to be passed on close together in a new wave. When people remember aspects of a past life, it's because the qualities of that past life led to more aspects of it persisting together into a new life. So aspects of the consciousness of some intensely evil person, for example, may tend to have a power of their own which will make them 'cohere' for longer, so that those aspects are likely to be reborn together in the same new wave or consciousness. There are some diagrams in the Buddhist religious texts which attempt to explain the process in detail. As I recall, there are several layers of 'ocean', and the waves have a particular shape. There are some lengthy and rather complicated commentaries in the texts; I hope I haven't oversimplified the explanation. > 2. Particularly bad souls are supposed to be > reincarnated as lower animals. Is there a cut off > point in how low a soul can go? Yeah, Microsoft employee... :-) > Are there animals > without souls? If amoebas are reincarnations, how > are they meant to make a conscious effort to do > better next time? It doesn't need to be a conscious effort. Unlike Christianity, Buddhism doesn't care if you believe in it or not. A man who's never heard the Buddha's teachings can attain nirvana; and a man who has studied for his entire life can fail. > 3. Where does evolution fit into this scheme? You tell me. It seems completely orthogonal to me. > 4. Who administers the reincarnation scheme? > Who knows what who has done and what subsequent > status should be assigned? If it is > automatic, by what mechanism does it operate? The Buddhist teaching is that karma is simply a natural process, the way things are. The "law of karma" is like "the law of gravity"; an inherent property of the universe. There's nobody administering it, any more than there's someone deciding which objects should fall. Sometimes people will seem to get away with things that karmically, they should suffer for. Like thermodynamics, you can occasionally seem to have local small-scale anomalies :-) > 5. By what mechanism does a soul move from one > body to another? Does the soul take residence in > the fertilized egg? The zygote? The newborn > child? What evidence is there for the > existence of an actual 'soul' anyway? None, if you mean "soul" in the conventional sense; which is why Buddhism rejects the idea of that kind of soul. When a creature dies, its consciousness is released; the wave begins to collapse and fall into the ocean. New life is born, and a new wave rises up. As to exactly how it ties in with fertilization of embryos and production of spermatozoa, I'm afraid I don't know. There are probably Buddhist teachings on the matter, but I've not investigated that deeply. > 6. In what sense is the soul that moved from > body A to body B the 'same' soul? In the sense that if I kick down a sandcastle and build it again in the same place with the same bucket, it's the same sandcastle. > Presumably it > has no physical presence, nor does it have any > recollection of the life in body A. Why, then, is > it the same soul? Well, if you mean "why is it the same single unique entity", the answer is that it isn't. Anyway, I hope I've cleared up a few misunderstandings. Unfortunately, much of the information floating around about Buddhism has been written by Christians, and is filtered through their preconceptions. For example, early books treated Buddhism as a theistic religion; Buddhists meditating were seen through Christian eyes as praying to some strange idol -- the statue of the Buddha. > We are told that 'all life is suffering' is a >fundamental principle of Buddhism. Such a bleak >outlook! Plenty of people enjoy life; if life >was that bad, suicide rates would be >astronomical. Why not take a positive approach >and enjoy life? Well, 'suffering' is the word generally used in translation, but perhaps a more appropriate one would be 'dissatisfaction' or 'incompleteness'. It's not that life is some kind of torture to be endured; rather, life gives you the feeling that it's not quite right. Something's missing, something about life is unsatisfactory, but you can't quite work out what it is. > Buddhism is not a violent religion. It does, >however, encourage and even require that its >adherents engage in meditation. I'm trying to see the link here, but... > It cannot be >denied that meditation in moderation is a >beneficial activity. However, if spending the >better part of one's waking hours staring at the >end of one's nose and chanting the same phrase >over and over again is not a pointless waste of >human life, I don't know what is. I assume you refer to those who choose to go 'on retreat', and spend many days in intense meditation. Buddhism teaches that a monastic existence is not suited to all. Far from encouraging people to devote their lives to meditation, you actually have to try and persuade the teachers that you are the right sort of person to undertake such intense study. You must distinguish between 'lay' Buddhism and monastic practice; it's unfair to criticize Buddhism as a whole because monks are extreme in their commitment. They are a very few. > Buddhists are as guilty as any other religion >of hypocrisy. Consider the rank materialism of >the Thai people, the opulence of the Buddhist >temples of Borobudur on Java, Ankor Wat in >Cambodia or the still very active Kek Lok Si >temple in Malaysia. So much for transcending >materialism. The idea is to transcend the desire for material wealth; not to remove material wealth from your life. > The idea that entertaining bodily desires >leads to sickness, old age and death is catchy, >but where is the causal connection? Perhaps the >rewards for abstinence only exist in Nirvana. Again, I think you're criticizing monastic life, rather than Buddhism in general. mathew -- http://www.domino.org/~meta/ Checking whether HTML is correct by looking at it with a browser is like checking whether C code is correct by looking at it with a text editor. _________________ >From the editor: Nullifidian means no religious faith. For me, that means really, truly no faith whatsoever. I don't find speculation about karma and reincarnation any more convincing than speculation about purgatory and heaven. OTOH, some of the Buddhist ideas about the self, and its lack of reality, seem to be quite well reflected in modern psychological studies (see Susan Blackmore, for one). This does not necessarily validate any of their transcendental speculations. ========================================================== || END OF TEXTS || ========================================================== There is no charge for receiving this, and there is no charge for distributing copies to any electronic medium. Nor is there a restriction on printing a copy for use in discussion. You may not charge to do so, and you may not do so without attributing it to the proper author and source. If you would like to support our efforts, and help us acquire better equipment to bring you more and better articles, you may send money to Greg Erwin at: 100, Terrasse Eardley Aylmer, Qc J9H 6B5 CANADA. Donations to the Humanist Association of Canada are tax deductible from Canadian income. Articles will be welcomed and very likely used IF: ( they are emailed to: ((ai815@FreeNet.Carleton.CA; or, godfree@magi.com), or sent on diskette to me at the above Aylmer address in any format that an IBM copy of WordPerfect can read; ) and they don't require huge amounts of editing; and I like them. I will gladly reprint articles from your magazine, local group's newsletter, or original material. There are currently about 140 subscribers, plus each issue is posted in some newsgroups and is archived as noted elsewhere. If you wish to receive a subscription, email a simple request to either address, with a clear request for a subscription. It will be assumed that the "Reply to:" address is where it is to be sent. If you are a humanist, atheist, or freethought orgnaization, or your web page has a bunch of links or pictures, articles or programs likely to be of interest to humanists send me your URL. 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Indicate quantity desired. Print address clearly, exactly as desired. Order from address in examples below. Laser printed, 8 pt Arial, with occasional flourishes. [NOT ACTUAL SIZE] <-------------------2 5/8"----------------------> _________________________________________________ |"Reality is that which, when you stop believing |/\ |in it, doesn't go away." [Philip K. Dick] | | |Greg Erwin 100 Terrasse Eardley | 1" |Aylmer, Qc J9H 6B5 Canada | | | email: ai815@FreeNet.Carleton.CA | | |________________________________________________|\/ _________________________________________________ |"...and when you tell me that your deity made | |you in his own image, I reply that he must be | |very ugly." [Victor Hugo, writing to clergy] | |Greg Erwin 100 Terrasse Eardley | |Aylmer, Qc J9H 6B5 Canada Ph: (613) 954-6128 | | email: ai815@FreeNet.Carleton.CA | |________________________________________________| Other quotes in between the articles are usually part of the label quote file. Occasionally I throw in one that is too long for a label, but which should be shared. Once again: ISSN: 1201-0111 The Nullifidian Volume Two, Number 1: JANUARY 1996 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- The problem with religions that have all the answers is that they don't let you ask the questions. =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Once again, you can now find me at: http://infoweb.magi.com/~godfree/index.html there is an ftp link there to an archive with all of the back issues available. (*) There is no footnote, and certainly not an endnote. - fin - -- --Cogito, ergo atheos sum. Greg Erwin, Vice President, I godfree@magi.com Humanist Association Of Canada believe ai815@Freenet.Carleton.ca http://infoweb.magi.com/~godfree/ I am an "Thought is not a management function." --John Ralston Saul atheist.