From: SAAVIK To: DRAGONFLY Subject: He-aled! Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:03:57 Message Number 16101 I thought Peyote was a root..... not a shroom.... I remember Silacide sp? shrooms..... from a long time ago. Used to pick them out of cow crap, wash them and make a nasty tasting tea.... guaranteed to make you forget a whole week of school work in one sitting. =========== From: SAAVIK To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:06:45 Message Number 16102 Guess I was lucky in one aspect about my parents.... they were both pretty emotional. I mean, if you were sad, you cried, if you were angry, you yelled, ect.. I mean, I didn't have to surpress my feelings at home. But I was kind of a hostile kid at school, my dad was an alcoholic and I used to take my frustrations out at school a lot..... so I guess I held stuff in at home so I wouldn't upset my mother. =========== From: SAAVIK To: THUMPER ONE Subject: Traps Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:10:23 Message Number 16103 Dear Doomed Bunny, I'm going to let that comment about my "bad eyes" slide until I recover however, when I am back on my feet.... you had better dig a very deep hole to hide in!!!!! There's NOTHING wrong with my eyes!!!!!!! (as long as I am wearing contacts, that is). People who live in stone houses shouldn't throw glass.......er, hmmm, maybe the anesthesia hasn't completely worn off yet. =========== From: SAAVIK To: THUMPER ONE Subject: You're Preggers Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:12:55 Message Number 16104 EIGHT KIDS!!!!! EIGHT KIDS!!!!! NO Vulcan way!!!! Besides, if I wanted eight kids by the time I was 35, that'd mean that..... (quick adding here) I have 4 years to have 5 kids..... It would have to be a litter... GOD, perish the thought.... Vulcans don't have puppies!!!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Whips and chain Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:15:53 Message Number 16105 SA>Congradulations.... SS>That's congratulations..."And a double dumb ass to you too" Shouldn't there be a comma "And a double dumb ass to you, too." Hmmmm? "Just a damn minute, Captain." =========== From: SAAVIK To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Smart 1 or Amy? Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:18:37 Message Number 16106 TS>..his dog scared the intruders off. Kinda neat, Yeah, most burgulars won't bother a house with a dog in it... but if they are bound and determined they will resort to the things you mentioned before (gun, poison). But most of the time, they aren't going to bother. =========== From: SAAVIK To: RUFUS Subject: Whips and chain Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:21:54 Message Number 16107 RF>We also played 'Hit the Turtle with various objects'. Hmmmm, that sounds like a game that wouldn't do much for Turtle, except maybe give him a few new bruises..... =========== From: SAAVIK To: RUFUS Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:23:50 Message Number 16108 RF>but I have seen four or five (births) on video, and I thought it was 'beautiful'. (Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out a Turtle) Naaaaaaa! See someone agrees with me!!!!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: DEATH FENNEC Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:25:57 Message Number 16109 DF>It deals with friendship and fights.... Nuff said, I understand what you are talking about, DF..... this is a great conflict and I can certainly see why it dismays you. =========== From: SAAVIK To: DEATH FENNEC Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:27:34 Message Number 16110 DF>Yeah, well a good star to wish on would be good right now! :) You want Kelly McGinnis or Brooke Sheilds? /\ ____/ \____ \ / \ / / \ Would this due?? I ran out of time to finish.... I'm not even supposed to be out of bed doing this now. =========== From: SAAVIK To: DEATH FENNEC Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:33:12 Message Number 16111 DF>I haven't hit on Saavik in awhile! You haven't /seen/ Saavik in a while!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:34:36 Message Number 16112 SA>There was a black girl named Vanilla... PW>I think whe went on to have a sex change, wear lots of pancake makeup, and co-star in a Teenage Ninja Mutant Turtle movie. And changed her last name to ICE....... =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: $$$$ Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:36:41 Message Number 16113 No I haven't heard that song "Send me your money." How does it go...?? =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:38:24 Message Number 16114 SS to DF>Would you PLEASE stop justifying your margins...it drives me crazy. Still not smoking, eh, Steel? =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: Life Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:41:10 Message Number 16115 PW>To sum up my life in two words right now.....DICKED! Um, gee, care to elaborate? Sounds like something is definately not going in the direction you want it to. =========== From: SAAVIK To: HACMAN Subject: doby Date & Time: 04/26/91 22:44:36 Message Number 16116 Saavik, My Doby has been digging holes lately. I think I can hear little Chinese voices in one of them.... that's /really/ hard to break them off when you aren't around while they are digging. The chewing is getting better, she still steal the occasional stuffed animal from my daughters room.... but my little girl (4) is a real toughy! She'll chase her down and snatch it back then shake her finger at the dog..."No No NO that's mine!" then she'll smack her over the head with it.... mind you, being smacked with a stuffed animal doesn't hurt anything more than the dogs feelings.... =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:16:15 Message Number 16117 >...after all there are fruits that would be more upsetting to have as >a namesake. Like kumquat, say, or tangelo? Or, moving out of the relm of fruits and into the domain of food items in general, there's always "meatloaf" or "lima bean" or "toast"...and if we move out of food objects, we can have people named "sprocket," "fork," "backgammon," or "clock." =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: T.V. evangelist Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:20:14 Message Number 16118 >...very important prerequisits for being healed... >...send me money... "Now if you can only send a dollar or two There ain't a hell of a lot I can promise to you But if you really want to see Heaven's door Make out a check for five hundred dollars or more! Seeeeeend me your moooooney Seeeeeend me your moooooney..." (Lyrics (c) 1991 Suicidal Tendencies/Mega Force Records, Inc.) =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: Toys Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:22:38 Message Number 16119 >..."My First Saw-Blade Shooter"... I want one! I want one! Fischer-Price, you say? Where can I get one? =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: help Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:23:38 Message Number 16120 >Does anyone else have anymore? (S)he has stopped doing the metabolism tango, perhaps? =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:25:26 Message Number 16121 >I do not date girls who wanna fool around. That's not an insecurity thing, is it? May I assume from that that the single most important tihing about any relationship to you is sex? =========== From: TURTLE To: THUMPER ONE Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:28:08 Message Number 16122 >Turtle, you have the mind of a computer, ... Like hell. Computers don't have minds. >...and the soul of one too. Not even close. =========== From: TURTLE To: THUMPER ONE Subject: TRust Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:29:01 Message Number 16123 >Stop that. Be consistant. No. (Heh heh heh.) =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Odd euphemisms. Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:30:02 Message Number 16124 Hey, here's one! (S)he has made the ultimate contribution to the recycling campaign. =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: He-aled! Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:31:10 Message Number 16125 >Actually that [sic] called being "slain in the spirit"...I've had it >happen to me... Really? You used to be a Charismatic or Gnostic Christian? The closest I've ever come to that sensation is when I do that thing where you squat down and hyperventilate, then stand up suddenly and have someone come up behind you and squeeze your ribcage...it makes you switch off like a light bulb. It's a really bizzare sensation, 'cause you are still conscious without being self-aware...Bizzare! =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:35:01 Message Number 16126 >...it's not the sights...it's the feelings that race through you... No, it's the feelings that race through YOU. The feelings that race through ME are: Y'know, it takes about a hundred thousand bucks to get this bioblob his first job at 18...there goes my Ferrari. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:36:35 Message Number 16127 >*Ding* (Ha, I finally got to ding you) And it was /wonderful/...was it good for you, too? Y'know, I'm rather proud of the fact that Kelly and I have already out- lasted most of the supposedly "more committed" people in this country who get married. I refuse to get married myself...not because I don't respect the ideals that marriage is built on or because I don't want a lasting relationship, but because I feel very strongly that in a society where almost all marriages fail, marriage is meaningless. The institution of marriage no longer has anything whatsoever to do with the ideals of marriage, it no longer serves any function as a way to provide a stable environment for raising children, and it no longer has any valu as an expression of commitment or love...marriage as it exists in this country makes me ill. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:40:28 Message Number 16128 "Cautious" and "suspicious" are worlds apart...suspicion is just about a guarantee of failure in any relationship. As for caution, I agree up to a point...remember, "of all forms of caution, caution in love is most often fatal" (Freud, I think, although I may be mistaken). Sure, if you become intimate with people sooner or later you're gonna get clobbered...but so what? If the advantages of intimacy outweigh the risks to you, then you simply accept that fact and move on. If they don't, you don't form intimate relationships. It's a really simple cost/benefit thing, you know? =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Not 15000 Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:44:35 Message Number 16129 SS>...women are too confusing. SA>Oh, and men aren't? Nope. :) =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:45:30 Message Number 16130 >He's just never seen a child that he spawned brought into this world. And he never will. >One day, he'll eat his words. The hell he will! You wanna put money on it? The reptile really, really detests children...especially the very small variety. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:48:11 Message Number 16131 >/Trust/ is NOT the absence of jealousy. No. Trust is what you have when you believe your partner will not deliberately do anything to hurt you. Jealousy is your own insecurity vented on another person or object. >You can't control your feelings. That's only true to a certain point. You CAN control the way you respond to the people and situations around you. You can also control your own self-image. Ain't nobody in the world can affect your own mental state unless you /allow/ them to...although you can allow someone by inaction as well as by action. I say again: Trust is integral to a stable relationship. With no trust, there is no stable relationship. Jealousy is destructive to any relationship. Jealousy is a reaction governed by one of the most ancient portions of the brain--the limbic system--and should be left to the lizards and lower life forms where it properly belongs. Jealousy has no part in the mind of an intelligent, self-determining being. Jealousy is the single most vicious, hateful, destructive emotional force in existance, and where there is jealousy there is a relationship in trouble. Period. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: BBS naked! Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:54:15 Message Number 16132 >Best relaxant: a cuddle with an affectionate woman. Nope. Best relaxant: a combination of Demerol and meperidine taken intravenously. A cuddle with an affectionate woman does things to my physiology that are contraindicated for a state of relaxation... although a /massage/ from an affectionate woman is relaxing. English Breakfast tea with honey is pretty good, too...as is the afterglow from an eighteen-hour hacking fugue, The Indigo Girls, sunset at the beach, long solitary drives, and waterbeds. =========== From: TURTLE To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/26/91 23:59:40 Message Number 16133 >How about a 'Thing' instead? They're convertible! So are Type 112 Bugs. There is a long and interesting story behind the Thing, though...they were originally designed as general-purpose utility vehicles during WWII, and where used by Rommel and his Afrika Korps for desert fighting. They're really weird-looking because they were designed to have a large machine gun mounted on a tripod in the back. The civilian versions don't have the tripod mounts any more, but they do still have the pop-off doors. The Thing is actually a Bug with a different body; the chassis, drivetrain, and suspension are pure Bug. The thing I wanna do is build a sand rail someday... =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:03:54 Message Number 16134 >Question for Turtle... Answer for Saavik: I have a younger sister. I can't recall having been jealous of her, though. Funny thing, though...Wratt and I had this discussion for about two hours last week, and I've got a better handle on it now, although I still can't say I understand what it feels like. I suspect it's a self-image thing, though; so far every person I've discussed the subject with, bar none, have said it primarily comes down to an expression of your own insecurity. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: VW again Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:06:17 Message Number 16135 >Actually I've heard they aren't very reliable, ... They're just as reliable as a Bug: you see Things with half a million miles on 'em fairly frequently. Sure, they break down a lot, but when they do you get out some rubber bands and a paper clip and make 'em go again. They're so easy to fix a child can do it, and parts for 'em generally cost about twelve bucks. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: He-aled! Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:09:51 Message Number 16136 >(Turtle, can you help?) What, you lookin' to score some? (Heh heh heh.) Actually, they're mushrooms of a particular genus I can pronounce but can't spell so I won't try, and they're mild hallucinigens. What else did you want to know? =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:12:16 Message Number 16137 >To Turtle...do you really feel you control your emotions? Or do you >feel you just shove them aside? Neither one. I simply don't allow /them/ to control /me/. =========== From: TURTLE To: THUMPER ONE Subject: Peyote Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:13:48 Message Number 16138 NO> Whats Peyote? T1> LocoWeed, ... Nope. Locoweed is something else entirely...it's a green, prickly weed that grows in semi-arid areas like the American midwest. It's inedible but doesn't have any marked effects on humans. It's a powerful intoxicant to cattle, however, and if they eat it they go nuts and become very, very aggressive and unpredictable...hence the name "locoweed". Ranchers hate the stuff and spend mucho bucks spraying for it. =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:17:29 Message Number 16139 >Black Magic sucks the stress outta me and gives it to you. With interest. Just talking to the dear lady makes my adrenaline start going...but hey, she's a lot of fun anyway. =========== From: TURTLE To: RUFUS Subject: Perception Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:19:03 Message Number 16140 >Well, aren't we just Mr. "Old Man Sick of Everything" Turtle. Nope. >There are things uglier than a newborn: [list follows] Okay, okay, I stand corrected. Jesse Helms is uglier than a newborn, too. But Lordy, they're hardly beautiful. Sentimentality aside, just LOOK at a brand-new bioblob some time and tell me this little red wrinkly thing is anything other than an aesthetic disaster. =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: Life Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:23:41 Message Number 16141 >To sum up my life in two words right now.......DICKED! Say again? I seem to have missed something. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Smart 1 or dog? Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:27:03 Message Number 16142 >Yeah, most of the time burglars won't bother a house with a dog in it.. Most of the time, burglars won't bother a house with an alarm sticker on the window, either, and they're a damn sight cheaper than a self- propelled odor factory! :) =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Babies & You Date & Time: 04/27/91 00:28:46 Message Number 16143 >(Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out a Turtle) Turtle bites Saavik. >Naaaaaaa! See someone agrees with me!!!!!! People agree with Jesse Helms. What's yer point? =========== From: ROBERT To: KYARA TOKYO Subject: Moving along Date & Time: 04/27/91 03:06:43 Message Number 16144 Robert returns Kyara's embrace with one arm, then releases her. "Not at all, my dear," he says. "'Ad a small talk with Louis downstairs. Thought I'd return this; 'e sometimes gets a little carried away with 'is job, 'e does." He unrolls the thick cloth under his arm to reveal Kyara's katana. "Kept good care of it, though," he says as he passes her the weapon with a great deal of formality. "Very nice, but not really my style." That done, Robert removes his jacket and crosses the room to hang it in the tiny closet opposite the door. Underneath, he is wearing a small sidearm in a shoulder holster; an antique H&K 9mm mated to a sophisticated Mitsuta combination visible/IR laser sight. He removes the holster, placing it carefully on the small nightstand near the bed. "Are you just going to stand there, then, or are you going to sit down?" =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Healed! Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:23:40 Message Number 16145 S> Everyone at my old church thinks I'm going to hell, and I don't care. DFy> Doesn't that bother you? Did you read my message? YOu quoted me as saying "I don't care", and then you ask if that bothers me? Boy, try reading before asking stupid questions. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: RUFUS Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:26:50 Message Number 16146 R>....what's that command for getting a hardcopy? I dunno know...(Steel is playing incredibly dumb, knowing full well the implications of what Rufus could do with a hardcopy.)...really man, I can't remember. Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to delete them message. Oops =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Seriously now Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:30:28 Message Number 16147 *yawn* =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: Traps Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:33:24 Message Number 16148 How long are you going to be laid up? What did you go into surgery for? Did everything go okay? Oh, BTW, I found the macros commands....heheh It sucks to be you. (tm) Steel Enterprises, Inc. (from macros, YES) =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: You're Preggers Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:36:08 Message Number 16149 Eight kids, eh? You most be out of your Vulcan mind.....BTW, it would be impossible, there's only 48 months in four years, and you'd need 45 months to bear those kids.....I don't think three months is an adequate amount of time to be divided between five kids....now if they could artificially give you two sets of twims, and then one more little one...now that would be possible. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:41:52 Message Number 16150 SA> (Saavik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tonguw out at Turtle SA> Naaa! See someone agrees with me!!!! You forgot the: Thhhhph! :P =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:45:27 Message Number 16151 SA> Still not smoking eh, Steel? No....I gave up. When Tammy and I first meet, it was rather difficult, to say the least. I had a few cigaretts with her and it's been downhill from there. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: doby Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:47:53 Message Number 16152 SA> ...then she'll smack her over the head with it...mind you, being SA> smacked with a stuffed animal doesn't hurt anything more than the SA> dogs feelings... Unless the dog gets mad at her....then she might be in trouble... BTW, that's dog's not dogs. Singular possessive, not plural. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:51:52 Message Number 16153 T> (Listing names for people.) Or "Blender," "Guitar," "Glass," "Turtle," "Stool," the list could be endless. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/27/91 10:55:08 Message Number 16154 T> That's not an insecurity thing, is it? T> May I assume from that that the single most important thing about any T> relationship to you is sex? 1.) No. That's a self-preservation...but, yes I can be insecure. I, personally, believe in faithful, I've only cheated on girlfriend and I was so guilt-ridden that I couldn't stand it. 2.) Sex is very important to me in a relationship, but it must be kept i (in) its proper perspective. I occasionally remind myself that, for example, let's say a couple has a good sex life, an hour a day, every day, even at that rate, they still have 23 hours a day together. (Assuming, of course, that they are married or live together.) =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Odd euphemisms. Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:03:31 Message Number 16155 T> ..(S)he has made the ultimate contribution to the recycling campaign. That's gross. Very gross. (Thinking of the implications to the food chain. Yuck!) =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: He-aled! Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:05:14 Message Number 16156 T> It's a really bizarre sensation, 'cause you are still conscious T> without beigh self-aware. That's a fairly accuarte discription of what it's like to be "slain in the spirit." =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:08:30 Message Number 16157 T> (Speaking of the pros and cons of relationship)...It's a really T> simple cost/benefit thing, you know? As they say, it looks good on paper. But the fact still remains that we don't have total control of our emotions. At least, I don't. s =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:14:29 Message Number 16158 T> (Jealousy) ...I suspect it's a self-image thing, though; so far every T> person I've dicussed the subject with, bar none, have said it T> primarily comes down to an expression of your own insecurity. *Ding* I couldn't agree with you more. I /know/ that jealous is an expression of your own insecurity...and I /know/ that I have a problem with jealousy. I have one question for you..Assuming that you, yourself, have never experienced jeaousy, and therefore, must be rather secure about yourself. How did you manage to get so self-secure? I've seen /so/ many people who have a problem with jealousy. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:20:22 Message Number 16159 T> (Answering a question from Saavik about jealousy.) I simply don't allow /them/ to control /me/. Do you deal with them as a separate entity or do you integrate them by over-riding them with logical. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Perception Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:23:32 Message Number 16160 T> ..just LOOK at a brand-new bioblob some time and tell me this little T> red wrinkly thing is anything other than an aesthetic disaster. Newborns are not particularily cute when they are first born, but after they are washed and so on, they can be adorable. (Yes, I have seen some UGLY babies, but most are kinda cute.) On the other hand, I must agree with Saavik, babies can be a wonderful experience. =========== From: KYARA TOKYO To: ROBERT Subject: Moving along Date & Time: 04/27/91 11:32:53 Message Number 16161 Kyara somewhat surprised by Robert returning her sword, takes it and places it next to her pack. Upon seeing the gun she asks, "Why do you carry that around? Is this place dangerous?" Robert says, "Are you just going to stand there, then, or are you going to sit down?' Kyara sits on the bad and motions for Robert to do the same. =========== From: RUFUS To: SAAVIK Subject: Whips and chain Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:14:59 Message Number 16162 >Hmmmm, that sounds like a game that wouldn't do much for Turtle, except >maybe give him a few new bruises..... Well, we only used whiffle ball bats and pillows. I don't know where my crowbar got off to. =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: Odd euphemisms. Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:21:26 Message Number 16163 There's always the one coined by pilots..."Buying the farm." (Or something like that...I NEED DEW!) =========== From: RUFUS To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:32:26 Message Number 16164 >Oh, I'm sorry I didn't mean to delete them messages. Oops Don't lose any sleep over it. I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them on magnetic media. :) =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/27/91 13:59:26 Message Number 16165 The origin of the 'Thing' is quite interesting. Hmmm... They'd be handy for the soldier-of-fortune groups too, 'cause of the gun mount available for them. *]:) What's a sand rail? =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: RUFUS Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 15:19:59 Message Number 16166 R> Don't lose any sleep over it. I wasn't planning on it. R> I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them on magnetic media. :) Now, I /am/ going to lost sleep over it. =========== From: RUFUS To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 15:56:24 Message Number 16167 R>I stuck 'em in my buffer and have them on magnetic media. :) SS>Now, I /am/ going to lost sleep over it. You really shouldn't lose any sleep over it. It probably won't fall into her hands unless something happens to anger me. A short list follows: Breaking treaties in Risk. Picking me up off the ground and flipping me around the x, y, /and, z axis (this really ticks me off). Drinking the last Dew. Not receiving $8 a week (well, this we can let slide). Of course, if I die a violent death, a letter containing the messages, a map to your house (which The Specialist drew for me a while back) and a pawn ticket for a local gun shop will be mailed to her. But don't lose any sleep, it'd be bad for your health. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 16:46:47 Message Number 16168 SA>Still not smoking, eh, Steel? Actually, he has started again. I gave him two weeks, he beat me my 1 day. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/27/91 16:48:42 Message Number 16169 T>Like kumquat, say, or tangelo? Leave it to you to come up with those type of fruits...something out of the ordinary.... =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: T.V. evangelist Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:00:17 Message Number 16170 "Preacher talkin' on the TV Puttin' down rock'n'roll. Wants me to send a donation Cause he Cause he's worried about my soul. Says, "Jesus walked on the water." "And I believe it's true." I just believe that preacher'd Like to do a little walkin', too." Originally a fairly good country song before ruined by a bunch of long- hyar no-talent heavy metal hippies copying it! =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:04:38 Message Number 16171 SS>I do not date girls who wanna fool around. T>That's not an insecurity thing, is it? May I assume from you that the T>single most important thing about any relationship to you is sex? What? If a girl fools around, she probably fucks around, too. I personally wouldn't want a girl who was busy screwing 3 other guys besides me. Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd get second hand. KNOWHATTAMEAN? =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: RUFUS Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:15:04 Message Number 16172 Your honor I throw myself on the mercy of the Aardvark. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Seeing women, Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:16:27 Message Number 16173 TS> KNOWHATTAMEAN? *DING* =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:24:12 Message Number 16174 T>we can have people named "sprocket", "fork," "backgammon," or "clock" Or Turtle even..... =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:26:46 Message Number 16175 T>it takes about a hundred thousand bucks to get this bioblob his first job at 18....there goes my Ferrari. Turtle, I am disappointed in you. Of all people, I figured you were NOT a materialistic Yuppie DINK type...... I'm shattered. =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:28:37 Message Number 16176 True, true, true....the marraige itself means nothing... only the relationship counts and you can have that without the piece of paper... The only time that little peice of paper comes in handy is in legal affairs..... well, for instance, IF there are children involved and one of you is ill or (shiver the thought) killed, the peice of paper insures that the children will remain with the surviving parent and he/she will be able to sign documents for insurance purposes ect...... Society in a whole puts a lot of value on the marriage license, but it really doesn't mean anything more than two people had to fill out a lot of paperwork and pay some bucks to have a cerimony and make it legal.. =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:32:46 Message Number 16177 Well, I don't like suspicion and again, I repeat, that was a poor choice of words.... but caution is another story... Just about every relationship I have ever had has been an intimate and serious one, I hav always been cautious at first, perhaps not outwardly or overly... but enough so that I didn't fall head over heels before I knew what I was getting into.... Wearing one's heart on one's sleeve is just like saying "Here I am, hurt me...." =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Not 15000 Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:35:34 Message Number 16178 SS>...women are too confusing. SA>Oh, and men aren't T> Nope. :) How do you figure men are any less confusing than women???? People in general are complex and each individual is a mystery until you really get to know them.... =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:37:35 Message Number 16179 T>The repitle really, really destests children...especially the very small variety. I've heard that before from people..... and years later, they happily munch on their own words while holding their newborn child in their arms Maybe you are an exception....... but I find it hard to believe that you "hate" children. =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: BBS naked! Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:40:34 Message Number 16180 Things that relax...... a glass of warm milk and a Darvoset or two.... =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:42:07 Message Number 16181 T>...it (jealousy) primarily comes down to an expression of your own insecurity. *ding*. (ahhhhhhhh) I believe that is true. Everyone (with maybe the execption of you and Jesus Christ) have insecurities... they say the main reason for sibling rivalry is the insecurity about the parents ability to love both children equally, ect..... Most men that I have known who were VERY jealous, were also VERY insecure about themselves, usually on a subconcious level. I can't handle that degree of Jealously..... I trust, and I need trust. =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: VW again Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:47:29 Message Number 16182 T>They're so easy to fix a child can do it, and parts for 'em generally cost about twelve bucks. So maybe that's why BugKnuts went out of business..... (local Bug repair shop). =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Babies & You Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:49:58 Message Number 16183 You bit me!!!!! Hmph! One day when you are old and gray, one of my children will stomp on you!!!!!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Traps Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:51:47 Message Number 16184 I should be able to go back to work sometime next week, the Doctor will let me know Monday for sure.... I can walk around a little, but mostly I am supposed to be sitting or laying down. I had a cyst (sp) removed. Everything went well, but my lungs ache from the anesthesia (hangover, arg) Luckily there was no cancer (they thought it might be a tumor or something). So even though I'm sore and druggy, I am relieved and happy... Macros? Did someone say Macros? Arf! Snarf! And other socially acceptable attitudes!!!!!!! (macro city) =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: You're Preggers Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:55:56 Message Number 16185 SS>Now if they could artificially give you two sets of twins.... Bite your tongue, Bucko!!!!! No more rug rats here!!!!! Stick a fork in me, I'm done. =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: doby Date & Time: 04/27/91 17:57:20 Message Number 16186 SS>Unless the dog gets mad at her....then she might be in trouble.... Not the nature of the beast... Saavik (the dog) is very submissive and if you scold her (we never beat her or hit her) she will go outside and sulk.... one Valarie fell on her, hard.... Saavik screamed but she didn' try to bite Val.... I don't really think she would.... but she IS a dog, and any dog will bite under certain circumstances. Dobermans tend to be very protective dogs who are good with "their" children. =========== From: SAAVIK To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:01:17 Message Number 16187 SS>They still have 23 hours a day together (Assuming, of course, that they are married or live together.) And assuming they are lotto winners or unemployed. Actually the average couple spends one hour in the morning together before work and lets see, from about 5:30 to 6:00 when they get off work to whenever they go to sleep.... =========== From: SAAVIK To: RUFUS Subject: Whips and chain Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:05:49 Message Number 16188 RF>I don't know where my crowbar got off to. Turtle probably hid it in the same place he hid Kelly's whips and night- stick. =========== From: SAAVIK To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:07:55 Message Number 16189 SA>Still not smoking, eh, Steel? TS>Actually, he has started again. Could of fooled me. By his hostile responces to Dragonfly (or was that KnightOwl?) I figured he was still withdrawling. =========== From: SAAVIK To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:10:07 Message Number 16190 TS>Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd get second hand. KNOWHATTAMEAN? I do. When you sleep with someone, you sleep with everyone they've ever slept with and everyone that they evey slept with and so on and so on... them there diesises (sp?) do get around. =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: DRAGONFLY Subject: dating Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:20:19 Message Number 16191 i didn't start dating until i was 16....i never wanted to do the,"Hey mom, wanna take me and a girl i like to the mall so we can see a movie and then pick us up again in a couple of hours? If so i'll be forced to do the dishes, listen to you tell everyone about my date, and ask my date all sorts of embarassing questions. =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: SAAVIK Subject: Peyote Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:23:48 Message Number 16192 Peyote is a drug made from cactii(sp?) It is black and you smoke it. It looks really sick and makes you even sicker. It is a mild hallucinic that lasts for several hours. =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: SAAVIK Subject: dicked Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:28:01 Message Number 16193 Well it goes something like this.... i am supposed to help take a friend to Philly (and eat some cheesesteaks), but we can't seem to be able to leave. We are STILL trying to find a place to rent us a car where we don't have to sell our souls to do so. We went to a place today that said ,"sure we'll rent ya a car." So we go in, sit through about a half hour of paper work, and as i was reading over the agreement the VERY LAST line said that we couldn't take the car more than 100 miles from Tampa AAAAAARRRRGGGGGHHHHHTTTTPPPPHHHHH....... go figure =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: TURTLE Subject: toys Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:32:45 Message Number 16194 Calm down Turtle, they never released them....i will help you make one though if you really want....there's a middle school i'd like to go to, to test it out. =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: TURTLE Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:36:00 Message Number 16195 With the tripod? =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: TURTLE Subject: dicked Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:38:15 Message Number 16196 you'll hear the whole story....whether you want to or not. =========== From: P.WHIPPED To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: cannibalism Date & Time: 04/27/91 18:40:46 Message Number 16197 Cannibalism isn't nearly as sick as many people think. It has been practiced in almost all cultures whether they will admit it or not. Even in our oh so beloved Western culture. What do you think this thing about Communion is? (Let's all celebrate here that some dude was tortured a coulple thousand years ago and drink his blood and eat his body) =========== From: DEATH FENNEC To: SAAVIK Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:10:26 Message Number 16198 Hmm. I am having a really bad time figuring out some things, and I think that I am going to go crazy. Hmm. Well, there is another problem that has arisen. This person has been thinking that I was going to stay with them for the rest of my life, but when things started happening, like the kid and all, then I have started to see the real world. Oh well, I guess that I shall just become a vegetable the rest of my life. :sigh:: /! Death Fennec -- ;> =========== From: HACMAN To: SAAVIK Subject: doby Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:19:53 Message Number 16199 Well mine has several toys of its own. It seems as though this mut is bent on destroying the toys. he won't just play with'm, he wants to tear'm apart. He's been sucessful on most of them. We thought we had him when we got him a toy with no edges or anything he could get his teeth on. Fooled us he did. In a matter of a couple weeks, he figured a way to tear it up. Hope he grows out of that. Also REAL glad he hasn't taken a likeing to the NEW furniture. I really think he'd die if he did. Burney =========== From: DEATH FENNEC To: SAAVIK Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/27/91 20:30:33 Message Number 16200 SA> You haven't /seen/ me in awhile!!! I don't have to see you to be able to be frlitatious towards you! :) /! Death Fennec -- ;> =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:42:36 Message Number 16204 TS> Leave it up to you to come up with those types of fruits... something out of the ordinary.... How about plantains or star fruit (also called passion fruit, I think)? If veggies can be included, how about some purple caulliflour? =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: P.WHIPPED Subject: cannibalism Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:52:48 Message Number 16205 An excellent book to read is 'Alive'. It's about a soccer team that crashed in the Andes mountains, and had to resort to cannibalism. It's a true story. =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: OOPS Date & Time: 04/28/91 00:56:56 Message Number 16206 To P. whipped: I was mistaken... it was a rugby team... =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:43:33 Message Number 16207 T> (Listing names for people) S>Or "Blender," "Guitar," "Glass," ... Yeah. S>"Turtle," ... Hey! S>"Stool," ...the list could be endless. How about "Liquidity," "Isomorphism," "Spring," "Penultimate," or "Axe"? =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:45:57 Message Number 16208 T>That's not an insecurity thing, is it? S>No. It's self-preservation... Really? Do tell. T>Is sex the single most important part of a relationship? S>Sex is very important...[it] needs to be kept in its proper S>perspective. TRhen how is it that a sexual issue is guaranteed to destroy any relationship with you? You claim that you will not tolerate a non- exclusive sexual relationship, but I bet there aren't very many other factors that are as certain to end a relationship with you, hmm? The thing with the power to destroy something is the thing most critical to it. Sex does, as you say, need to be kept in its proper perspective: it is a valuable part of a relationship, but hardly the /foundation/ of a relationship. A relationship built in such a way that a sexual issue will terminate it is a relationship built on air, you know? IMHO, dishonesty or violation of trust ought to be better candidates for "legitimate reasons to end a relationship" than some issue of sexual fidelity, for God's sake! =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:51:20 Message Number 16209 >As they say, it looks good on paper. But the fact still remains that >we don't have total control of our emotions. That's absolutely true. We do, however, have control over the sorts of personal interactions we choose to engage in. The knowledge that being hurt is worth the advantages doesn't make it hurt any less, but it does allow you to /choose/ to continue to become intimate with people even after you've been hurt. =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:53:27 Message Number 16210 >Assuming that you, yourself, have never experienced jealousy, and >therefore, must be rather secure about yourself. How did you manage to >get so self-secure? I have no earthly idea. I'm not sure a /lack/ of /insecurity/ is the same thing as being /self-secure,/ for that matter. I think it's more of a simple learning thing...I have been involved in enough open relationships to /know/ that if my partner takes another lover, it doesn't change anything about our relationship, same way I know that if I drop a hammer it'll fall. =========== From: TURTLE To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 01:59:26 Message Number 16211 T>[Remark about not allowing his emotions to control him] S>Do you deal with them as a separate entity or do you integrate them S>by over-riding them with logical. Neither one. I simply don't allow my /behavior/ to be governed by my /feelings/. On a practical sense, your feelings cannot dictate your actions by themselves; they simply try to make you behave in a certain way. You feel hungry, you feel horny, you feel angry, you feel afraid; these feelings don't govern you. You don't eat because your hunger has taken posession of your body; you eat because your hunger makes you feel as though eating is a good thing to do. You still CHOOSE to eat. You hit somebody not because your anger forces you to, but because you choose to, with the knowledge that you are angry at this person. Your physicla movements are still under your conscious control. Feelings, by themselves, are incapable of any sort of independant expression. =========== From: TURTLE To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:04:35 Message Number 16212 >What's a sand rail? It's a type of dune buggy--the kind with the open tubular-steel frame around it. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: T.V. evangelist Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:07:06 Message Number 16213 >Originally a fairly good country song... HA *snort* Now THERE'S an oxymoron..."good" and "country song" go together like china and H-bombs, you know? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:08:16 Message Number 16214 >I personally wouldn't want a girl who was busy screwing 3 other guys >besides me. Never know what her next "john" might give her that I'd >get secondhand. Oh, come off it. Stop creating false dichotomies and start thinking with your other head. The fact that your partner has other lovers doesn't mean she's busy screwing everything with a rod. I wouldn't want such a partner, either, but that's not the type of thing I'm talking about... I'm simply pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that your dear beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought of anyone else is silly (and pathetic). As for catching something second- hand: If you're sexually active that's a rish you take, period. Mature, responsible adults can deal with that risk. If your partner is not a mature, responsible adult, you've got problems that have nothing to do with sex...and if she is, it's an irrelevant argument. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:12:32 Message Number 16215 >Of all people, I figured you were NOT a materialistic Yuppie DINK >type... I'm not. No Yuppie in me at all. I'd simply rather have a Ferrari than a small, screaming child whose diapers need to be changed. C'mon, think about it...what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to 160 on I-75? Be honest, now! =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Not 15000 Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:15:01 Message Number 16216 >How do you figure men are less confusing than women???? I don't...I was yanking your chain. >People in general are complex... *Ding* >...and each individual is a mystery... *Ding* >...until you really get to know them. *Klunk* People are still a mystery after you get to know them; they'r just not as /much/ a mystery. People are like any other chaotic system-- sure, you can predict their behavior within certain parameters once you're acquainted enough with 'em, but they'll still surprise you. (Interpersonal relationships also exhibit flicker noise, a hallmark of chaos theory, but that's another matter altogether.) =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:18:16 Message Number 16217 T>The reptile really, really detests children... S>I've heard that before...years later, they happily munch on their S>own words... Uh-huh. That's pretty much the stock response to my "I don't like children". Then again, people say the same thing to anyone who says "I don't like marriage," too, and I can say with a pretty damn high degree of certainty that I ain't gonna be doing THAT any time in the forseeable future. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:20:50 Message Number 16218 >Everyone...have [sic] insecurities... Well, I'm inherently distrustful of any statement that starts with the word "everyone," especially when discussing complex emotional issues, but even granting your point that's still no reason for jealousy. You don't have to be totally secure to have faith in your relationship, and you can entertain doubts about the stability of your relationship without becoming jealous over unrelated matters...and sexual matters are not usually the real problem with a troubled relationship. >I can't tolerate that degree of Jealousy... I can't tolerate jealousy. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Babies & You Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:24:41 Message Number 16219 >One day when you are old and gray, one of my children will stomp on >you!!!!!!! Turtles don't get old and gray...they just get more irritable. Besides, if your children try to stomp on me I'll simply be forced to buy their housing complex and evict 'em. Figure I oughta be able to turn the money other people are busy spending to raise their kids into some serious leverage by the time your children are large enough to come a-stompin'. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Huh-uh Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:28:04 Message Number 16220 >When you sleep with someone, you sleep with everyone they've ever >slept with and everyone that they've ever slept with... Bunk. There is *no* sexually transmitted disease that has a 100% transmission rate. Simple disease epidemology tells you that that theory isn't worth the electrons it takes to write it on the screen. That doesn't mean that there is *no* risk, mind you, not by a long shot...the risk is real, and it most certainly calls for caution. It does not call for hype and distortion, though, and the simple fact of the matter is if you are hetersexual and don't abuse drugs intervenously you are far more likely to die in a car accident on your way to a lover's house than you are to contract a fatal STD from a lover even if you're pretty adept at getting around. If you're appropriately cautious, selective in your lovers, and conduct yourself with maturity and responsibility, and you treat sex with the respect due to a powerful bond of friendship and intimacy, the risks become very small indeed. And, like I mentioned before, not being faithful to one partner does ***!!!NOT!!!*** mean you or your lover will go around fucking every animate object in town. =========== From: TURTLE To: P.WHIPPED Subject: dating Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:34:58 Message Number 16221 >i didn's start dating until i was 16... Hell, I didn't start 'til I was 18. I did take two girls to the senior prom, though. =========== From: TURTLE To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:37:04 Message Number 16222 >How about plantains or star fruit (also called passion fruit, I think)? Um...I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit". Passion fruit is something else entirely. =========== From: TURTLE To: TURTLE Subject: 16222 Date & Time: 04/28/91 02:38:46 Message Number 16223 What a neato keen number! 16222...it's got kind of a ring to it. Heh...more refined and subtle than an obvious number like 15000, too. =========== From: RUFUS To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Just a thought. Date & Time: 04/28/91 11:38:30 Message Number 16224 >Your honor I throw myself on the mercy of the Aardvark. Hmm...Okay. =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SAAVIK Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:18:52 Message Number 16226 (Just in case this isn't explained later...) Why were you in the hospital? And I hope you get well. //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:20:45 Message Number 16227 ... and we could have people who choose to nickname themselves after animals, but I don't think that would be too likely... //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:24:31 Message Number 16228 >...I feel very strongly that in a society where almost all marriages > fail, marriage is meaningless. When last I checked, the divorce rate was about 55%. Forty-five percent of something is not "almost all." Also, a majority of marriages fail early on in the relationship -- or after the children are off to college. (This info might be a bit outdated.) Marriage may not be the most stable environment imaginable for raising children, but (from the above) it tends to do a fair job. Right now, marriage is the only institution around which is expressly for the raising of children. Until something new (and demonstrably better) comes along, we're stuck with it. (BTW, does anyone know if there exist statistics for unmarried couples: how long they stick together? Of course, any data like that would be biased.) //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: P.WHIPPED Subject: cannibalism Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:49:41 Message Number 16229 If you ever go to Mexico (or go to a TRUE Mexican restaurant), check out the "Sopa Azteca" -- Aztec soup, also known as "Sopa de Tortilla." Tomato soup base with avocado, cheese, tortillas, and chicken. Of course, the REAL, original recipe had more to do with cannibalism. (I've had it with cow's brains instead of cheese.) //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 12:57:15 Message Number 16230 Y'all, I've grown the stuff. Here's a breakdown: Plantains: A really huge banana, wonderful for frying, not so great raw. They're not as sweet as normal bananas. Kiwi: A tiny, ugly-looking fruit which is green on the inside. Sour- sweet taste, and really wonderful eating! Star fruit: Also known as "camambola" (Sp? My Webster's doesn't have this one.) A mild-tasting fruit: I only liked the shape. Passion fruit: Another, different fruit. Not related to any of the above. (And I don't remember much about it.) Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach me something... //Dragonfly// =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: names Date & Time: 04/28/91 14:48:16 Message Number 16231 T> How about "liquidity", "isomorphism", "Spring", "Penultimate" or "Axe"? Or.... "Polymorphonuclearlucocite"? (it's a red blood cell) =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/28/91 14:55:12 Message Number 16232 T> [Describes a sand rail] Oh.. I've seen them before... I didn't know they had a name of their own though... =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 15:01:54 Message Number 16233 T> Um..I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit". I believe that you're mistaken... Kiwi fruit look like ape balls.What I'm referring to is yellow and is shaped like a star. =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: dating Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:12:56 Message Number 16234 PW> ...i never wanted to do the, "Hey, mom,....... god, that was funny..... And SOOOO true!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: Peyote Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:14:41 Message Number 16235 PW>It (peyote) looks sick and makes you even sicker. I think I'll pass....... PW>It is a mild hallucinic (sic) that lasts for several hours. Now I know I'll pass..... I see enough strange things that are real!!!! =========== From: SAAVIK To: P.WHIPPED Subject: dicked Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:17:10 Message Number 16236 Yep, you're dicked! Have you considered renting one of the small Uhaul trucks.... they are more expensive than car rentals but they don't have travel limitations. Sometimes you can work out a fair deal if they happen to have a truck they need driven back to that area..... How much /does/ it cost to rent a car to drive as opposed to bus tickets or flying? =========== From: SAAVIK To: DEATH FENNEC Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:21:52 Message Number 16237 Fennec, You can't live your entire life to suit and please someone else... if that person is important in your life, and will remain important no matter where you go or what you do, then tell them how important that they are to you, maybe it will reassure them..... =========== From: SAAVIK To: HACMAN Subject: doby Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:24:42 Message Number 16238 Give your pup a frisbee to play with in the yard, they can grab onto them easily and they still fly even after they eat half of it.... most dogs don't swallow the plastic, they just chew it up and spit it out. Beware some of those big rawhide thingies, they become soft and easy to swallow but they can block the intestines.... I used to be a Vet Tech, you wouldn't believe some of the things we pulled out of sick dogs. The Nylabone company makes a good bone that doesn't chew up, it gets teeth marks in it, but they really have to work their butts off to destroy it.... check em out. =========== From: SAAVIK To: DEATH FENNEC Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:27:37 Message Number 16239 DF>I don't have to see you to be frlitatious (sic) towards you! Well, thats true..... :)(: =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:29:42 Message Number 16240 How about colors....... "Purple, Rouge, Mauve, Magenta, Butternut, Goldenrod, Green, Blue.... and so on. =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:36:14 Message Number 16241 T>what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to 160 on I-75? Be honest, now! Well, seriously, I wouldn't trade my kids for all the Ferrari's in Florida...(what are there? 3?)... I have created life.... little people who will grow up and continue the chain of life..... I love them more than life itself.... A Ferrarri seems pale and shallow next to them.... =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Not 15000 Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:39:32 Message Number 16242 T> *Klunk* Hehhe. I've never been *klunked* before. T)People are still a mystery after you get to know them: True, and thank God, eh? Think how boring it would be if you knew everything your friends were going to do before they did them... I mean, sometimes you can predict their responces but it's always exciting when someone surprises you....... Incidently, what the *hell* is flicker noise????? Is that, like, dolphin clicks??? =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:43:13 Message Number 16243 Well, I've known a few people who said they'd never have kids and so far they haven't and likely won't.... but every so often I see 'em weaken and actually smile at a baby........ =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:45:00 Message Number 16244 T>I can't tolerate jealousy. But it's always going to be a factor here on Earth... there are lots of jealous people. Maybe the situation you are in now deems that you don't have to deal with that emotion, but that's a rare situation.... jealousy exists to some degree in (I won't say every) almost all relationships. I don't like jealousy, I don't like feeling it and I don't like seeing it.... but it exists so I will deal with it as long as it doesn't become a major issue...... if it does, it's time to re-evaluate the relationship..... Like you've said yourself, each person is an individual, full of differances and complex emotions, ideas, expressions.... and relation- ships are even more complex as they are a joining of two complete individuals..... they are bound to be negitive emotions involved in most relationships...... =========== From: SAAVIK To: TURTLE Subject: Huh-uh Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:51:43 Message Number 16245 I didn't and never said that not being faithful to one partner does not mean you or your lover will go around fucking every animate object in town.... I'd never make a completely ridiculous statement like that. I'm only saying that if you sleep around, you are increasing your chance of contracting something nasty..... you can be as selective as you pleas but VD or AIDS isn't tatooed across someones forhead, Turtle..... you never know...... and the more chances you take....... This isn't a good day and age to sleep around....... I mean, you gotta take your chances, I realize that.... but how do you know that you're partner is as selective as you are until you get to know him/her? And .......aw, never mind. =========== From: SAAVIK To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/28/91 18:56:27 Message Number 16246 Drf?Why were you in the hospital? I had a cyst thing removed. No biggie..... they just thought at first it was a tumor or something and so I only had one day warning.... I'm ok now, just a little slow and sore....... Drf>I hope you get well. Thanks, I will be up and out soon. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Babies & You Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:13:35 Message Number 16247 SA>(Savvik links her arm in Rufus's and sticks her tongue out at Turtle) T>Turtle bites Saavik. Check. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: SCOTT STEEL Subject: Seriously now Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:15:48 Message Number 16248 SS>*yawn* And, yet, I haven't seen you correct anyone lately...hmmm. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:34:17 Message Number 16249 No, I disagree. Sexual fidelity is among the more important things; this should be considered equally to dishonesty or violation of trust. I repeat, if I'm going to be "with" a chick she will have to be as "faithful" as I am -- and this INCLUDES sexuality. If she violates this "faithfulness" then this is basis for termination of the relationship. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:37:44 Message Number 16250 T>...doesn't make it hurt any less, but it does allow you to /choose/ T>to continue to become intimate with people even after you've been T>hurt. Or not to. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:39:52 Message Number 16251 IE, you have nothing to loose. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:43:24 Message Number 16252 T>Oh, come off it. Stop creating false dichotomies and start thinking T>with your other head. Hey, fuck you. I was thinking logically. I quite plain and simple don't want to catch anything that she might pick up from someone else. T>The fact that your partner has other lovers doesn't mean that she's T>screwing everything with a rod. I wouldn't want such a lover, either, T>but that's not the type of thing I'm talking about...I'm simply T>pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that your dear T>beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought of anyone else T>is silly (and pathetic). And on the other hand, if she needs someone besides me, then quite apparently she has no further need of me. And if you can't understand that I have no insecurities about whether or not she is "remotely entertaining" the idea of another lover has nothing to do with why I would have nothing to do with her then that seems rather "silly and pathetic)". T>As for catching something secondhand: If you're sexually active then T>that's a risk you take, period. Mature, responsible adults can deal T>with that risk. Yes, and I do. By eliminating said "risk"...by dropping the possible carrier of said "risk"y sexual practices, ie, said promiscuous lover. T>If your partner is not a mature, responsible adult, then you T>have problems that have nothing to do with sex Wrong, I have no problems to speak of...I have no lover that wants to sleep around. T>and if she is [a mature responsible adult] then it's an irrelevant T>argument. If she was a mature responsible adult, then she wouldn't sleep around. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/28/91 21:58:38 Message Number 16253 T>what would you rather do, change diapers or slide it up to 160 on T>I-75? You will never do iether of those...next? =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: SAAVIK Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/28/91 22:19:16 Message Number 16254 SA>I wouldn't trade my kids for all the Ferraris in Florida... No? How about just one or two? Hell, I would. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: SAAVIK Subject: Huh-uh Date & Time: 04/28/91 22:21:50 Message Number 16255 SA>I'm only sayin that if you sleep around, you are increasing your SA>chances of contracting something nasty.... DING! SA>You can be as selective as you like, but VD or AIDS isn't tattooed SA>across someone's forehead, Turtle. You never know DING! TURTLE: Get the picture? =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:13:41 Message Number 16256 >When last I checked, the divorce rate was about 55%. You'd better check again. When last I checked, the divorce rate was about 55% IN THE FIRST THREE YEARS ALONE. The overall rate is much higher. You may be content with being "stuck with" marriage, but I have too much respect for the ideals it is /supposed/ to represent to have any truck with it. =========== From: TURTLE To: DRAGONFLY Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:16:34 Message Number 16257 >Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach >me something. No shit. =========== From: TURTLE To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: names Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:17:28 Message Number 16258 >Or.... "Polymorphonuclearlucocite"? Actually, that's "polymorphonuclearlucocyte," and strictly speaking it's only a /human/ red blood cell...we humans are unique among shambling simians and mammals in general in that mature human red blood cells have no nucleus. =========== From: TURTLE To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: Volkswagen Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:20:33 Message Number 16259 >I've seen [sand rails] before... I didn't know they had a name of their >own though... Most Bug variants do. The most popular Beetle derivatives are Baja Bugs, dune buggies, and sand rails, and they're all distinct. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Names? Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:22:38 Message Number 16260 >How about colors... It's been done. "Goldenrod" reminds me too much of obnoxious carbonless forms, though. Didja ever notice how whenever you fill out some form in penta-quadruplicate, you always get the goldenrod copy? God, I hate that color! =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:23:52 Message Number 16261 >...(what are there? 3 [Ferraris in Florida]?) There are more than that in Sarasota alone. I passed a beautiful Testarossa a couple of days ago... >[Children continue life, etc] In case you haven't noticed, the planet's kind of overcrowded with Homo Sapiens Sapiens as it is. You really love life? Try doing something to stop widespread destruction of rainforests. When you consider how fast we are exterminating entire /species/ of life (what are we up to now, 500 species a year? Something like that), somehow passing on the torch of life to a few more destructive and overblown simians seems pale and shallow by comparison. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Flicker noise Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:27:16 Message Number 16262 >Incidentally, what the *hell* is flicker noise????? Flicker noise is a characteristic exhibited by a lot of chaotic systems. It's the type of unpredictable state transitions you see in a non- continuous chaotic system that displays brief, drastic state changes between periods of apparant stability. If you want to see it i action, just turn over an hourglass...the sand'll pile up to a certain point nice and quiet-like, then suddenly landslide to a new state, and pile up quietly, and landslide. A common characteristic is that tiny changes in the system--the addition of /one/ grain of sand--can cause a sudden catastrophic change in the system, and it is absolutely impossible to predict the magnitude of the change except in certain broad limits (there will always be more small changes than large changes, for example). Also, the ratio of small to large shifts is relatively constant over any number of iterations, meaning that the behavior of the system is fractal, and if you plot the number of shifts of various magnitudes over a given number of transitions you'll get a nice, smooth curve. Any chaotic system that behaves this way is said to exhibit flicker noise. I brought it up because I was thinking about chaos theory about a week ago and noticed that some relationships I've seen work the same way--the system tends to drive itself to the brink of instability, then realign drastically at a seemingly trivial change. You know, like couples who seem perfectly happy until--whammy!--the slightest stress explodes into a major confrontation way out of proportion to whatever caused the stress in the first place. All systems which exhibit flicker noise can /seem/ to be perfectly solid and stable while actually being a hairbreath away from disaster, so one grain of sand or one trivial disagreement can cause the whole thing to come crashing down. They're non-linear, see, and...hell, I'm out of space. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:36:05 Message Number 16263 T>I can't tolerate jealousy. S>But it's always going to be a factor here on Earth. So are hatred and fear and greed and selfishness, but that doesn't mean I gotta have any truck with them either. I don't grok jealousy, I don't understand it, and I have very little patience for it. I will not become involved in a relationship with a jealous or overly posessive partner. Yes, I've had to deal with it occasionally, butthat doesn't mean I have to tolerate it, any more than I have to tolerate dishonesty or any other violation of trust. =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Huh-uh Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:39:50 Message Number 16264 >This isn't a good day and age to sleep around....... No age has /ever/ been a good day and age to sleep around, with the sole exception of that brief interlude between the discovery of penecillin and the advent of the first antibiotic-resistant microbes. What people don't realize is that the existance of an incurable sexually-transmitted disease that can kill you isn't some new horror, it's been the norm for almost all of human history. There has been exactly /one/ generation in all the time since the advent of man that could say it didn't have to worry about dying of something contracted from a lover. Yes, AIDSD and other STD's are a risk. So is driving your car...in fact, driving your car is several orders of magnitude more dangerous than sex. It's a matter of /relative/ risk. Do you realize that your chances of being struck by lightning are about three times greater than your chances of contracting AIDS via hetersexual sexual intercourse with a person chosen at random from somewhere inside the United States? You're more likely to get hepatitis-B than AIDS from normal sexual intercourse, and I don't notice any widespread fear of hepatitis or any radical change in anyone's sexual behavior because of it. And, sure 'nuff, hepatitis can kill you. I'm not downplaying the risk of contracting a sexually transmitted disease from casual or careless sex, and I'm certainly not advocating going out and sleeping around. I /am/ rational about the risk of STD's, though, and I /am/ rational about being careful to avoid them and behaving in a responsible manner when I'm in a sexual situation. People who don't take steps to protect themselves when they're having sex are idiots, just like people who don't wear seatbelts are idiots...but the fact that driving a car and engaging in sexual intercourse both have risks is not, by itself, a valid reason not to drive or have sex. I think, though, that =========== From: TURTLE To: SAAVIK Subject: Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:49:30 Message Number 16265 ...that the thing that bothers me the most about the current popular reaction to AIDS is this smug, self-important idea that this is a new thing, that if it wasn't for /this thing/ we could go back to the way things /ought/ to be, like they were /before/, where dying from some disease you got while having sex was just /so/ unheard of...you know, the "love shouldn't kill" mindset that finds it so utterly appalling that you can't fuck indiscriminately without fear of anything worse than an inconvenient trip to the doctor for a shot of penecillin. For a brief instant it was there, and now that things are back to normal everyone's reacting like Donald Trump when he found out his credit had run out..."you simply /can't/ do this to us!" Grr...that bugs me. But, I think I shall stop ranting now before I /really/ get going... =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:54:33 Message Number 16266 >Sexual fidelity is among the more important things; ... Why? As long as she isn't doing anything behind your back, why? What's so goddamn special about sexual intercourse that isn't equally special about non-sexual intimacy or any other type of close, personal type of relationship? Or would you also get annoyed if you saw your lover engaged in a physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship with another man? Is it okay if she kisses another man as long as she doesn't (pardon) fuck him as well, or is that off-limits too? Where do you draw the line, and why? =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Say what? Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:58:07 Message Number 16267 >Or not to. *Ding* Either way, the choice is yours...you make the decision, not some blind, senseless emotion. =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/28/91 23:59:06 Message Number 16268 IE, you have nothing to lose. Hmm. I'm not sure that's really the same thing. I know for a fact that if my partner takes another lover it has no bearing whatsoever on our relationship, if that's what you mean... =========== From: TURTLE To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:00:49 Message Number 16269 >If she had need of another lover, she quite obviously has no further >need of me. Voop! Voop! Voop! Non-sequitur alert! That one doesn't even begin to make it as a valid statement. First off, you don't take another lover because you "need" another lover; second off, a relationship had best be based on needs other than sex if it's gonna get anywhere...if your partner has no need of you out of bed, you have a problem. >If she was a mature responsible adult, then she wouldn't sleep around. Having an open relationship is not the same thing as having a lover that "sleeps around," although I most sincerely doubt I will be able to make you understand that. In any event, that statement doesn't hold water even if you /do/ accept the idea that if your relationship is open your partner will "sleep around". =========== From: ROBERT To: KYARA TOKYO Subject: Moving along Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:34:08 Message Number 16270 "Dangerous? No. No, not really. Old 'abits die hard, that's all. You will forgive if I am curious about your weapon of choice, though. Can't say I've met any wandering ronin before." He sits down next to Kyara and continues, "I've just realized I've been most unspeakably rude, though. I didn't answer your earlier question. 'Ow bloody thoughtless of me! No, I don't assume you've 'ad martial arts training just because of your race. My word, no. Can't really put my finger on what it is about you, but there it is." He brushes her hair back away from her neck and lightly traces the curve of her shoulder with the tip of one finger, then begins to massage her shoulders. "I suppose one can't be too careful, though." =========== From: SHANDRA To: SAAVIK Subject: Trouble? Date & Time: 04/29/91 00:48:56 Message Number 16271 Trouble brewing somewhere nearby? That's putting it mildly. My tail twitches up over my shoulder and I start gnawing on the end of it-- an old habit I've never been able to break. "Something weird's going down around here. My guess is it's something to do with a bunch of mercenary special-forces types. Someone certainly seems to have had a falling out with our friend over there. Even odds that it doesn't involve us directly. We just happen to be in the crossfire. It still don't add up, though. Something don't feel right." I twitch my tail back down where it belongs and coil it around my leg, to resist the temptation to start biting it again. "I don't know," I say again unnecessarily. "This has a real funny vibe to it, not military, not spook, not S.A.G., but I still got this feeling like things are getting set to go shitstorm on us. We still got that emergency generator in the shed? I think I'll have Louis start tying things down. Where's Robert?" I look over to his table and notice that the young lady--what was her name?--isn't there any more. He hasn't returned from his ritual morning walk yet, either...oh, great. Fine time to think about getting laid, I think to myself. Bastard. I notice my tail has come unwound and is lashing the air behind me. All this time and that sonofabitch can still get to me. "Well, I got stuff to do, so I won't detain you. I'll keep my eyes open, though. Be careful." =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/29/91 01:59:36 Message Number 16272 DF> Ya know, the amount of horse manure I had to cart actually DID teach DF> me something. T> No shit. ROFL! =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: spelling.. Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:01:48 Message Number 16273 I wasn't too sure whether to use an 'i' or a 'y'; so I took my chances. Ya gotta admit though, it would be one hell of a name to be stuck with, especially if your job requires your signiture frequently. =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: cars Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:04:45 Message Number 16274 Have you ever seen a Volvo 1800 E? They're pretty neat cars. As for cars in general, I don't like any of the cars that have been produced in the past several years. =========== From: KNIGHT OWL To: TURTLE Subject: jealousy Date & Time: 04/29/91 02:10:06 Message Number 16275 In reading your point of view on the subject of jealousy; I am curious about something. Are you an only child? the reason I ask, is that being one greatly diminishes your exposure to "intr - people" emotions in the early years of life. =========== From: ODEN To: KNIGHT OWL Subject: Kiwi Fruits Date & Time: 04/29/91 13:58:27 Message Number 16276 >Kiwi fruit look like ape balls. Argh! blah! you wont catching my eating one of those things again! whatta thought... ewwue... next time you are at the supermarket, pick one up and fondle it. bet you will make a weird face and put it down promptly. well, unless ofcourse you like ape balls. thats you... heh. -Oden =========== From: RUFUS To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/29/91 14:18:40 Message Number 16277 >I think star fruit are actually called "kiwi fruit". Nope...star fruit are star shaped (hence the name) yellow fruits. Kiwi fruit are those little brown furry fruits. If I can dig up the fact sheet on Star Fruits I'll bring it by... =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SAAVIK Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:21:53 Message Number 16278 I'd love to hear of someone named "and so on." Now that we've run out of nouns to call people, what about other parts of speech? (Skip the interjections.) //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: SAAVIK Subject: Kiddies Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:24:48 Message Number 16279 >I had a cyst thing removed. If I'd never met you, I would have been convinced I knew who you are. At the same time you were in the hospital, another friend of mine was also in the hospital, getting a cyst removed... Keep on getting well, and keep your chin up! (And hope die Kinder don't drive mommy crazy.) //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:27:09 Message Number 16280 (Mein Gott, do we agree on something?) I consider sexual fidelity to be a part of trust: if the relationship is set up with sexual fidelity in the mind of both partners, that's a part of the trust. Yes, my relationship with Jenn weathered a lot of storms... but, in the end, the thing that killed it was not sexual fidelity, nor lack of trust -- just the subtle distancing that comes of two people not sharing enough experiences together. (And, what's confusing: She seems to be coming back! Waaaaah.) //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Whoops... Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:31:23 Message Number 16281 (I feel better, now. We do disagree.) > I quite plain and simple don't want to catch anything that she might > pick up from someone else. That's a perfectly logical and rational reason to insist on mutual monogamy. No -- she might not catch something (or he might not) if [s]he sleeps with someone else who is infected... but why take chances? > And on the other hand, if she needs someone besides me, then quite > apparently she doesn't need me.* *Klank!* Huh? That makes no sense whatsoever. The fact that you might not be able to satisfy all of your girlfriend's needs does NOT mean she doesn't need you. In my relationship with Jenn, we were (and still are!) very close friends. But we didn't share all of the same interests. We both enjoy certain things (cooking, science fiction, and unusual movies), but we both have some very different interests and different friends. I can't talk with her about certain topics, because I know next to nothing about them: she turns to other friends for that. I can't talk with Jenn about all of my interests, because she knows next to nothing about them. (For example, I can't talk "math" to her, without taking about an hour to explain the basic concepts first.) We learned very quickly in our relationship that we CAN'T be every- thing to each other... but that it didn't matter. As long as we had each other for the emotional support, and as long as we shared interests in common, we were still in love. > ...I have no lover that wants to sleep around. I sure didn't! And neither did Jenn! A person can't control whether they want to sleep around or not: but they can control whether or not they actually sleep around. //Dragonfly// =========== From: DRAGONFLY To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Explanation Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:51:15 Message Number 16282 (Whoops. That last part might have been a bit unclear. I meant that both Jenn and I /wanted/ to sleep around. Sorry. //Dragonfly// =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: You're Preggers Date & Time: 04/29/91 15:58:36 Message Number 16283 SA> Stick a fork in me, I'm done. Okay. *STAB*...scream.....nope, she's still alive and kicking, she's not done yet. I hope that's not prophetic. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: SAAVIK Subject: 15000 Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:00:54 Message Number 16284 Yes, what you said about the actual amount of time they send together is true, but....you are /still/ married every minute of every day. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: fruits Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:06:19 Message Number 16285 Speaking of weird names in general, I heard of this one set of parents who did something rather cruel to their daughter....The family surname was Falls. And they named their daughter, "Water." I heard that these parents didn't mentally survive the drug era of the 60's too well, and hence a daughter named, Water Falls. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:13:13 Message Number 16286 A sexual issue will destroy a relationship with me, that is true, but so will dishonestly and violation of trust. I have sometimes forgiven unfaithfulness, and lies, and breeches of my trust, but I don't like to. I'm not going to enter a relationship if I know that the girl wants to see other people....usually that kind of information is learned in the beginning of a relationship. T> A relationship built in such a way that a sexual issuse will T> terminate it is a relationship built on air, you know? Wrong...A relationship where intimacy is exclusive shared allows for the two people to get closer to each other. It allows for a /stronger/ foundation to be built. It is pure foolishness to allow yourself to get very close to someone who has other lovers, you are virtually guaranteed to get hurt. But, if you and your mate are only having sexual interaction with another, it can add to the cohesiveness of the relationship. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:22:05 Message Number 16287 T> I have been involved in enough open relationships to /know/ that if T> my partner takes another lover, it doesn't change anything about our T> relationship.... That's bullshit and you know it....hypothetically speaking, how you feel if I was interested in Kelly. Would you not feel threaten by me? To make a more obvious point, if one of your lovers in an open relationship decides to remain faithful to one of her other lovers, then she has just changed something in your relationship. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:28:57 Message Number 16288 T> I'm simply pointing out that not being able to tolerate the fact that T> you dear beloved might ever even remotely entertain the thought og T> (of) anyone else is silly (and pathtic). We are not talking about /thoughts/, we are talking about actions. I wouldn't care if my girlfriend thought about other men, or fantasized about other men. That has nothing to do with anything. I will not tolerate her seeing someone else while we are together. Just as a clarifier, I have been in relationships where it was /established/ at the outset, that /we/ could see other people..In that kind of relationship, I don't even bother trying to get close to that person, basically, we would spend some time together, but we were just a fuck-buddy for the other. Nothing more. If I want a meaningful relationship with someone, then I stipulant that neither her and myself will be involved with anyone. If she finds this not to her liking, she knows where the door is. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Seriously now Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:47:48 Message Number 16289 TS> And, yet, I haven't seen you correct anyone lately....hmmmm. I an human, believe it or not. I just don't feel like correcting /every/ error that goes by. But don't worry, I'll still correct errors occasionally, as always. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:50:35 Message Number 16290 TS> IE, you have nothing to loose. Isn't that spelled, "lose"? =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: THE SPECIALIST Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:54:08 Message Number 16291 *Ding* =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: DINK? Me?? Date & Time: 04/29/91 16:56:53 Message Number 16292 T>.....Trying doing something to stop widespread destruction of T> rainforests. And what have you done for this planet's eco-system? You're awfully self-righteous lately. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:03:01 Message Number 16293 T> Where do you draw the line, and why? If I am involved in a serious relationship with a woman, I will not tolerate her FRENCH-kissing another man. (I don't have a problem with a normal kiss exchanged between two people.) I will be faithful to her, and she will be faithful to me, if not, she's history. Period. Anything from french kissing to sleeping together. That's where I draw the line. Now, for the 'why' portion of your question. Because I feel that if two people are intimate with one another then that relationship can be allowed to run deep emotionally. If, on the other had, no commitment is made, and therefore, you can sleep with whoever you choose, then I question your depth of feeling for your lover. =========== From: SCOTT STEEL To: TURTLE Subject: Say how? Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:11:11 Message Number 16294 T> I know for a fact that if my partner takes another lover it has no T> bearing on our relationship. Bullshit! That's bullshit and you know it. (Refer to my post where I draw a hypothetic scenario for Turtle.) =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Relationships Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:28:48 Message Number 16295 T>Why? What's so goddamn special about sexual intercourse that isn't T>equally special about non-sexual intimacy of any other type of close, T>personal type of relationship? Hmmm...could it be, the exchange of bodily fluids? T>Or would you also get annoyed if you saw your lover engaged in a T>physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship with another man? What the hell's a "physically intimate, close, non-sexual relationship"? How the hell can you have a "physically intimate non-sexual relationship"? That's like flying without getting up in the air! Physical intimacy implies sexual relations! T>Is it okay if she kisses another man as long as she doesn't...fuck T>him as well, or is that off limits too? Where do you draw the line, T>and why? Is it ok? Hell, no! I draw the line at exchange of bodily fluids... for lack of a better distinction. But then again, I'm not interested in "sharing" my lover. To wit: I was talking about faithfulness; I included sexual fidelity as part of my prerequisites. I am not willing to share my lover with anyone, and so, if she feels like someone else then have at it...without me. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: Not 15000 atall Date & Time: 04/29/91 17:43:43 Message Number 16296 T>First off, you don't take another lover because you need one, The opposite of that this that you take another lover because you want one...which means that you are not completely satisfied with the first one. And if you are not completely satisfied with the first one, it's time you found one that you _are_ completely satisfied with. T>...second off, a relationship had best be based on needs other than T>sex if it's gonna get anywhere... (sarcastic:) Ding. T>...if your partner has no need for you out of bed, you have a problem. No, I no longer have that particular lover. IE, no problem. T>Having an "open relationship" is not the same thing as having a lover T>that "sleeps around" No, but it is the next "best" thing. If you have to lovers, and she has two lovers, and they have two lovers, and so on...and so on...somethings BOUND to come your way, sooner or later. And if just ONE of those "oh, i don't care" fag fuckers happens to come in contact with your cozy little pyramid...well, it was nice knowing ya, Turtle. T>although I most sincerly doubt I will be able to make you understand T>that. Oh, I understand...I just hope that you catch wind of what I'm trying to put across. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: DRAGONFLY Subject: Whoops... Date & Time: 04/29/91 18:01:28 Message Number 16297 Ok, so look at it like this: in a world of absolutes, which I live in (absolutely) if I can take no other lover than my current lover, then she can have no other as well. With this in mind, consider: She is not completely happy with the sex aspect of our relationshipm so in a fit of pique, she decides to try someone else. Rather than h have this happen, I would rather she broke up with me *before* she took someone else, because until she found out if she was *clean* after that, I wouldn't want to sleep with her. Abosolutely, no exceptions. =========== From: THE SPECIALIST To: TURTLE Subject: UBAFTM Date & Time: 04/29/91 18:12:21 Message Number 16298 Ok, Turtle...you need to sign on to UBAFTM... =========== From: HACMAN To: TURTLE Subject: SERIOUS PROBLEM Date & Time: 04/29/91 20:14:14 Message Number 16299 And what would your ideal marriage be like? Trusting, committed relationship? Lasting how long? Forever? Several partners involved? For myself, I have been married for 7 years. I love my honey more now than before. Sure, we've had our problems..who hasn't? But a truely idealic marriage doesn't exist (except the Beavers parents marriage) and who really believs that type of marriage exists or ever existed. A good marriage is possible, but not without bumps. I Don't think the type of marriage that won't make /you/ ill EVER existed. Sure you can quote me statistics on divorce rates and such, but there would be just as many then if it was as easy as today to get one. If two people want to make it work they can...yesterday, today, AND tomorrow. My point: I'm not really sure.... Burney =========== From: HACMAN To: SAAVIK Subject: Birth Date & Time: 04/29/91 20:31:52 Message Number 16300 I agree with both of you...sorta. A newborn can be just what a couple want...and therefore, it is beautiful(in there eyes). On the other hand, to someone who doesn't care for children, there aint much you can say/do to convince'm otherwise. Myself included. I personally do not want children. Thank God my wife doesn't either. As far as eating our words, I dont think we ever will. It is our choice and someone cannot change our minds. If we change our minds in the future, our perspective will change. I do not "detest" children, I just dont want anything to do with them. If someone else wants them, fine by me. Burney ===========