NUMBER OF LINES: 999 001=Usr:0 Null User 07/08/87 00:40 Msg:0 Call:0 Lines:19 1$If you are in need of help, you need but ask... 2$************************* INSTALLED: 2 MAR 88 **************************** 3$Welcome to BWMS II (BackWater Message System II) Mike Day System operator 4$************************************************************************** 5$GENERAL DISCLAIMER: BWMS II IS NOT RESPONSIBLE FOR ANY INFORMATION 6$ PLACED ON THIS SYSTEM. 7$BWMS II was created as an electronic bill board. BWMS II is a privately 8$owned and operated system which is currently open for use by the general 9$public. No restrictions are placed on the use of the system. As the 10$system is privately owned, I retain the right to remove any and all 11$messages which I may find offensive. Because of the limited size of the 12$system, it will be periodically purged of messages (only 999 lines of data 13$can be saved). To leave a message, type 'ENTER'. Use ctrl/C to get out 14$the ENTER mode. The message is automatically stored. If after entering 15$the message you find you made a mistake, use the replace command to 16$replace the line. To exit from the system, type 'BYE' then hang up. 17$Type 'HELP' to see other commands that are available on the system. 18$************************************************************************** 19$ 002=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 12/04/84 19:49 Msg:1232 Call:8311 Lines:7 20 The Red Shift: The cornerstone of the New Astronomy. Everyone is 21 familiar with the fact that a train, in aproaching, makes less 22 and less noise until, at the moment of actually passing, it makes 23 no noise at all. Once it has passed it gets louder and louder, until 24 when it's a dot on the horizon the noise is deafening. This is the 25 well-known Doppler Effect. The red shift is simply analogous to this. 26 **************************************************************************** 003=Usr:336 NOAM RANN 12/04/84 21:29 Msg:1233 Call:8315 Lines:5 27 DOES THIS MEAN I'M THE FIRST? +<=-) 28 Well, I've got a question that has bugged me for some time and I can't quite 29 seem to get it out of my head. can anyone help? The question is this; 30 WHY? 31 +<=-) (-=>+ 004=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 12/04/84 22:15 Msg:1234 Call:8318 Lines:2 32@Uh, mike? Check the date headers.... and the call log. The system apparently 33@went ape when it hit the 29th! 005=Usr:322 Stray Cat 12/04/84 22:36 Msg:1235 Call:8319 Lines:5 34 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 35 36 because you are . . . everything. 37 38 ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^ 006=Usr:237 barefoot john 12/05/84 02:45 Msg:1236 Call:8322 Lines:25 39 40 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 41 As the schooner 'Humorous Truth' rocked gently to and fro in the 42 eddie(backwater) of Suck Creek, the capt'n speculated on future 43 manifestations of the 'Apparent Linear Sequential Reality'. Why, 44 I'll just have a peek at the upstream flow of events, he mused, 45 picking up the 'Long Glass'. With this trans-optical instrument 46 he could see the better part of forever. SuperConductors flashed 47 across the displayed image. Yes, this technology on the cutting 48 edge of science has potential equivalent to the invention of the 49 transistor. Possible future effects from SuperConductor devices, 50 although extremely significant, may pale in the shadow of work 51 being done in a more ethereal realm. 52 53 Recent developments is the science of social phonemes, leading 54 to paradigms for modeling social change, offer possibilities for 55 influencing our lives in ways we can hardly imagine. What about 56 a theory that can quantize a 'social virus' and postulate future 57 effects? Information Power and related pursuits will reshape the 58 very fabric of our lives. New paradigms of thought open the door 59 to infinite possibilities. "Discrepancy is the door to Discovery" 60 L'homme: The medium is in the mail. #include 61 That ole' Rascal Petrov is back in action, perhaps the 62 'Caribbean Connection' should be alerted! 63 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 007=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 12/05/84 16:44 Msg:1237 Call:8331 Lines:6 64 thIs Is wOrld wAtch thrEE>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-0?-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>16:4?> 65 Hi I'm just poking my head in at the inn to see wasup.... 66 It's been a nice day spent with a special friend... 67 I will not take responsiboility for my actions here. I've had too much cafine 68 today... 69 Noam, Why not? (original, huh? 008=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 12/05/84 17:46 Msg:1238 Call:8332 Lines:1 70 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 009=Usr:378 alan olsen 12/05/84 18:35 Msg:1239 Call:8333 Lines:6 71 welcome to the great vanishing bbs. (The last time i was here 72 there was 700+ lines.) 73 When questioning reality, just remember: 74 "Reality? What reality? No such thing...." 75 ==================raven maniac========================== 76 010=Usr:336 NOAM RANN 12/05/84 19:39 Msg:1240 Call:8335 Lines:2 77 +<=-) NOAM (-=>+ 78 WORLD WATCH THREE: TO MUCH ESPRESSO? 011=Usr:336 NOAM RANN 12/05/84 19:45 Msg:1241 Call:8336 Lines:8 79 I THOUGHT OF 'WHY NOT ' AND CAME UP WITH 'BECAUSE' WICH 80 ISN'T HELPFUL. 81 RAVEN MANIAC: HAVE YOU TRYED THE 'DB' COMMAND TO SEE WAT YOU'VE MISSED 82 THE LAST 200+ LINES? 83 ANYONE: HOWCOME WHENEVER I DELETE A CHARACTOR IT GETS REPRINTED (OR ECHOED) 84 BACK SOME TIMES, OTHER TIMES IT DOESN'T [THIS I PREFER] 85 86 +<=-) NOAM (-=>+ 012=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 03/03/88 23:02 Msg:1242 Call:8340 Lines:12 87 ********************************************************************** 88 It depends on whether you use "delete" or "backspace" as to what happens. 89 BWMS still supports teleprinters which means that the delete key still 90 gives the proper response for a printer which is to echo the character 91 being deleted (it is kind of difficult to erase a character once it has 92 been printed). The "backspace" is the proper key to use for video editing 93 it does the proper erase. Watch out for "cursor control" keys, these put 94 out weird codes of which no two systems support the same way. BWMS does 95 not support screen editing. Backspacing or deleteing is the extent of the 96 inline editing available. If you find you made a mistake in a previous 97 line use change to fix it, or use the replace command to reenter the line. 98 ******************************* CM *************************************** 013=Usr:336 NOAM RANN 03/04/88 15:54 Msg:1243 Call:8353 Lines:2 99 +<=-)I USE THE DELete KEY ALL THE TIME. ho well, I GUESS IT'S ANOTHE MYSTORY, 100 JUST LIKE 'WHY?' (-=>+ 014=Usr:289 Audie Huber 03/04/88 22:56 Msg:1244 Call:8362 Lines:11 101 +-+-+-+-+-++-+-++-+-+-+-++--+--++-+--++--++---+++----+++++-++++--++++++++++++++ 102 I have seen many people on this BBS, or computer system if you perfer, 103 asking if they exist, an interesting theory in the response goes something 104 like this: Existance itself implies an equal and opposite non-existance, 105 thus rendering the saying "I think, therefore I am." a moot point at best 106 For we cannot comprehend if non-existing entities think or not. And the 107 whole matter of death is conjecture, so whats the point. 108 Corwin 109@^C 110@C^ 111@^c 015=Usr:336 NOAM RANN 03/05/88 13:53 Msg:1245 Call:8376 Lines:6 112 i think 113 ithink i am 114 therefor i am... 115 ...i think 116 117 NOAM THE UNORIGINAL 120@ 121@ 017=Usr:335 Corwin I 03/05/88 14:24 Msg:1247 Call:8378 Lines:7 122 ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ 123 I've been an observer on this board for some time, just watching the happenings 124 and have been interested in this "am i real?" topic. just letting you know I'm 125 around. 126 CORWIN of Amber 127 ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ ---<-@ 128 P.S. I didn't do 102-108 018=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/05/88 15:34 Msg:1248 Call:8380 Lines:12 129 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-05-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>15:40> 130 NOAM- Actually it was a 'Black And White' at la Patisery that did it... 131 Also, wasn't that the Moody Blues you quoted? 132 133 Gad, looks like we've got two Corwins here. I guess the Border War is over 134 so now there'll be Name War. Could we call it The Battle Of The Silver Roses? 135 Really people, why fight? Carma is an awful thing to #*! with. Revenge is 136 never neccesary when the Cosmic Law is gunning for do-badders... 137 138 Note: MIDGE THE ROO, WHERE ARE YOU? 139 140 15:46>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 019=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/05/88 18:20 Msg:1249 Call:8382 Lines:1 141 MIDGE THE WHO? 020=Usr:188 Justin Klein 03/05/88 19:59 Msg:1250 Call:8388 Lines:19 142 |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- J |-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|- 143 Now I KNOW I exist! I have no doubts! And I was the one who started all this! 144 -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| Jody -|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-|-| 145 =========================Justin the Blue========================== 146 Hello everybody!!!!! Typing now on a computer system that is soom to 147 be mine: a Xerox 820-I w/2 8inch diskdrives which runs on CP/M and I get 148 a modem with all this. Yes, it may be old(not that old!) and I kinda li 149 CP/M 'cause I can write my own programs and is possible to get software 150 for cheap and easy: it's a real computer (note that my last computer w 151 a T/S 1000)and it's all mine!!!!(or will be) 152 153 And besides, since the terminal equipt disappeared at International House 154 of Midgard, there`s been no way to communicate w/bbs`s. Now I have my very own 155 and since moves to other towns are indicated in the future, at least I`ll be 156 able to keep in touch 157 158 Until then, SunDial BBS Radio KSUN will be off the air for temporary... 159 Luv u all and see u in about 1 week (if bad winds prevail) 160 ============================Justin the Blue======================== 021=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/05/88 22:25 Msg:1251 Call:8398 Lines:14 161 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-05-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>22:30> 162 JUSTIN- A T/S 1000?! EGAD! My friend had one that crashed if you breathed on 163 it. I didn't kno they bothered to make periferrals for it... 164 NOAM- Not The Who, The Roo, as in kanga. 165 JODY- Are you sure.... 166 167 now you know that you are real, 168 scatter good seeds in the fields, 169 each day has it's own way, 170 turn look down life's hallways; 171 doorways, to lead you there... 172 173 Or something like that... 174 22:41>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 022=Usr:234 ALAN ZEHNTBAUER 03/06/88 12:40 Msg:1252 Call:8412 Lines:10 175 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-SEEK=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 176 This must not continue to go unnoticed! Trains do not get louder as 177 they near horizons. This is the virtually unkown "Relppod" effect. The 178 author has become confused with an ultra violet shift and we sheep skim 179 by without registering a peep (or a Baa as the metaphor requires). Some 180 continue to wonder why instead of challenging this assault upon our 181 sacred perceptions. Well I for one will no longer standby mutely. or is 182 that stand by mutely? I think I need a little help from them literates. 183 And typists... 184 =-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- 023=Usr:283 KEVIN CONNELL 03/06/88 13:30 Msg:1253 Call:8414 Lines:15 185 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 186 I am here. I have just suffered a major blow to my lower abdomenen because 187 she told my mommy that I used bad words on the computer, and my dearest mommy 188 grounded me from my computer I will seek revenge.. haahaahaa! 189 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~KEV C>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 190 191 192 My computer is screwed. Some lady told my mom what I did, there! 193 194 195 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 196 KEV C> 197 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 198 199 024=Usr:382 doug macdonald 03/06/88 15:00 Msg:1254 Call:8416 Lines:1 200 boy does this bbs need growing up!! how's about a real topic like GIRLS !!!!!!! 025=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/06/88 18:24 Msg:1255 Call:8421 Lines:1 201 A PHOENIX WAS HERE! 026=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/06/88 19:31 Msg:1256 Call:8422 Lines:25 202 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-06-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>19:37> 203 The evening had been most interesting, like old times. I was with my two 204 closest friends, Chris and John. Back in the days when my memories were formed 205 Chris and John were dating. The relationship ended abruptly and by who was 206 established. 207 I had remaned friends with the both of them in the years that passed. Chris 208 would always ask what John was doing, I guess she could never let go of what 209 they had. John saw the pictures I had taken of her, I'm an amature 210 photographer, and said he'd like to see her again. 211 By some strange acciden, I got a Friday off. We arranged to meet at the 212 resteraunt where she worked and would go out when se got off. We went to 213 some coffee shoppe in Portland and talked. John, as usual, did most of the 214 talking. John talked about relationships after the one they shared and how one 215 girl he went out with wasn't on the same level as he was causing it to be nearl 216 impossable to get close to her. 217 "It's so hard," he said, "To love someone and never beable to get close to 218 them. The pain is so powerful.." 219 The whole time he talked, Chris's eveys were locked into mine. It was known 220 that I was in love with her the entire time they went out. But the topic was 221 generally left untalked about, unfaced like an alcoholic relative. Her eyes 222 ripped into me. I couldn't help but ask myself: did she love me then? Did we 223 go through over two years of hell because we were both to weak to do a damned 224 thing about it? 225 226 20:04>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 027=Usr:384 Vaughn Hughes 03/07/88 13:52 Msg:1257 Call:8442 Lines:24 227 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 228 Well, you've all done it now! I'm here!! heh heh heh 229 230 Anubis 231 Lord of the Grave 232 Ruler of the Underworld 233 Chronicler of the Book of the Dead 234 Embalmer of mummies 235 Weigher of souls 236 King of the Dead 237 Escorter of spirits 238 ___ 239 / _ \ 240 | / \ | ehold! 241 \ \_/ / 242 \ / TH NH! 243 _ __ 244 |__ __| 245 | | 246 |_| 247 248 The ANKH is that which *is* all life. 249 250 | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | | 028=Usr:385 James Wilde 03/07/88 15:23 Msg:1258 Call:8443 Lines:4 251 Hello folks, I just applyed to this system. I hope to see more of this 252 "philosophical" stuff it's fun to think that there are other people out 253 there who think too. See ya. 254 029=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/07/88 17:44 Msg:1259 Call:8445 Lines:1 255 Let's not over do it, Anubis.... 030=Usr:387 DERRICK WILLHITE 03/08/88 01:00 Msg:1260 Call:8461 Lines:5 256 C 257 C 258 ^C 259 260  031=Usr:388 Evan Coats 03/08/88 16:22 Msg:1261 Call:8477 Lines:7 261 oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo 262 World Watch Three--- Gee, you sound mighty familiar. I think we have met in Wil 263 sonville at a certain theatre... 264 265 266 You probably will calll on the computer there next time you work. We will see 267 if you guess who I am. 032=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/08/88 19:12 Msg:1262 Call:8485 Lines:3 268 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-08-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>19:20> 269 Hi Evan... 270 19:21>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 033=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/08/88 20:39 Msg:1263 Call:8489 Lines:3 271 So, we've got a Phoenix and Anubis, what oter Egyptians will walk on by? 272 I'm looking for a CHEAP termina. I'll setle for darn near anything... 273 Poenix 034=Usr:23 Grann 03/09/88 09:54 Msg:1264 Call:8521 Lines:4 274 ()()()()() 275 How 'bout a VIC-20 and a model 1600 modem? "Can you say 22 columns? I knew 276 you could." :-) 277 ()()()()() 035=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/09/88 17:34 Msg:1265 Call:8535 Lines:3 278 "TWENTY-TWO COLUMNS?! Ah, I mean, Twenty-two columns!" How much? 279 Mr. Polymorph 280 wwiii reporter 036=Usr:7 Leonard Erickson 03/09/88 19:33 Msg:1266 Call:8538 Lines:5 281 how about a 32x16 uppercase only display? It needs a tv for the display, but it 282 has a built-in 300 bps modem... (and supports some rather odd graphics in color 283 (CIS G4 and RLE if that means anything)) 284 Make me an offer! 285 ______________________________Leonard__________________________________________ 037=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/09/88 20:04 Msg:1267 Call:8540 Lines:55 286 8-} "Am I on?" [=-> "Not yet, thirty seconds." 287 >|-} "Ready global?" |-/ "Ready! Que logo." =|-/ "Check" 288 >:-] "Ok, give me live feed. Studio, stand-by." 289 +<=-) "This one's for keeps..." 8-} "Shut up." 290 [=-> "Ready in 10......5,4,3,set logo, now." 291 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE?>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-09-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>20:10> 292 8-} "This is Phoenix Polymorph on World Watch Three. Tonight I want to 293 discuss a problem that ha plagued man since the dawn of laundry; the missing 294 sock. 295 "Even in the days when the village women would take the laundry down to 296 the river to beat it on a rock, an average of one sock per load would be lost. 297 At first carelessness was blambed. But, as that was denied by the woman-folk, 298 whitch-craft was held responsable for the problem. However; after the burning, 299 hanging and nailing to trees of roughly half the town's people, the problem was 300 still there, general carelessness was again blamed. 301 "now, with modern times come modern problems. It is beleved by some 302 that a device is built into each washer or dryer that destroyes one sock per 303 load. Evidence supports the dryer as the colour of the lint is often that of 304 the missing sock. 305 306 !=-+ "'This is just just an unfortunate coincidense.' eported a spokes 307 person for Maytag.8-} yet some people think that there is mor. They think 308 that there is a connection between both the home apliance and garment indus- 309 tries. They beleve the Mob is somehow connected. 310 311 |=-) "There is little evedense to support our theories," reported a man who 312 wished to remain un-named, "But isn't covering things up what they do best?" 313 314 8-} "'THEY', of course, refers to the mob" 315 |=-) "The only thing we have to go on is the TUPPERWEAR-BIRDSEYE scandle 316 twelve years ago." 317 318 8-} "As you recall a contaminating agent was introduced to the lining of 319 TUPPERWEAR bowls causing food to spoil in three to five weeks, causing people t 320 o say 'screw left-overs, let's buy T.V. diners.' The reasoning behind this 321 plot? There is more profit in T.V. diners than in TUPPERWEAR bowls. 322 "But now, back to the sock sucking polyester panic of missing socks. 323 You may be asking 'What can we, the public, do?' The answer is nothing." 324 325 [:-( "Our research labs tryed many solutions, but we still lost 1.72 socks 326 aload. We even tryed pinning socks together, But they would both disapear, 327 leaving a lone safty-pin behind." 328 329 8-} "Representatives for Amana have flatly refused to comment and we have 330 not been able to contact Whirlpool. 331 "As private consummer grupes investigate, all we can do is sit and wat 332 e. 333 "Phoenix Pollymorph, World Watch Three. 334 335 20:40>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 336 337 The Phoenix Polymorph Show has been brought to you by The Bagwana Corporation. 338 When you think dayly living, think Bagwana, makers of "Tastee Dinner-time 339 Frozen Steaks and doggie treats" 340 038=Usr:52 sandy mcgrath 03/09/88 23:11 Msg:1268 Call:8548 Lines:3 341 (((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*))) 342 Still alive and kicking (well at least trying to) 343 (((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))((( Ripple )))(((*))) 039=Usr:272 Talos 03/10/88 00:41 Msg:1269 Call:8550 Lines:22 344 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> 345 Anubis - The Long Winded :) 346 347 Nice story on the socks there. Enjoyed that one I did. 348 349 Last Week To Come And See... 350 351 TINTYPES 352 353 A musical celebration of America 354 (1890 to 1920). Featurin turn of the 355 century music by Scott Joplin, George 356 Cohan and others, also Vaudville acts 357 and more. Performed at the PCC Sylvania 358 Little Theatre at 8 pm on Thur, Fri, 359 and Sat. nights, doors open at 7:30. 360 For more information and reservations 361 Call the Box office from 12 noon to 362 5 pm at 293-4949. See you there! 363 364 Talos 365 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> 040=Usr:393 MIKE NORTON 03/10/88 16:36 Msg:1270 Call:8565 Lines:11 366 ------------------------------------ OB ---------------------------- 367 I am proud t that I, the infamous whomever, hfound a 368 reasonable (I think) solutin to the missing socks problem. 369 First, take all the socks that you currently own (including the ones on 370 your feet) and throw them all in the garbage. Now, withdraw $15 from 371 a local ATM, run down to K-Mart and buy 3 six-packs of white socks, all 372 of the same brand. From now , when you wash your socks, you will have 373 at most one unmated sock, since they all look identical. Granted this isn't 374 a particularly elegant solutin, but it's worked for me quite sometime now. 375 Of course, I have to go through the above procedure about every 6 months. 376 ------------------------ Original Border (or is that Boarder?) ------ 041=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/10/88 18:27 Msg:1271 Call:8568 Lines:8 377 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-10-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>18:37> 378 Our reporter Phoenix Polymorph is trying to find out why the socks are disapear 379 ing. He shuld be following up in a few days. 380 We, at the Banzai Institute have tryed the above 381 operation and found it the bet way to deal with the situation. However; it is 382 quite a drag running out to K-Mart every six months. 383 More as it comes in. Shine on... 384 18:39>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 042=Usr:391 jim barp 03/11/88 06:26 Msg:1272 Call:8576 Lines:9 385@hOW did this bbs get the name backwater??????????????????? 386 ..>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>quill>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 387 What is backwater? Is that the place that fish grow into monsters 388 in the stream? Maybe backwater is what we use to call backwash 389 when persons shared the same glass of water. Backwater to me 390 is a place where things just kind of float in. You look at it 391 that way and you see that this just might be a great name for a 392 bbs. Things just kind of float in and float out again. Well, 393 I guess I'll float out now. gurgle gurgle...........the quill............ 043=Usr:283 KEVIN CONNELL 03/11/88 21:49 Msg:1273 Call:8600 Lines:9 394 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~KEv C.~~~~~~~~~ 395 I am here. 396 I am not stupid 397 I AM alittleweird. 398 I hate snivelers. 399 I like women. 400 I hate .... 401 402 044=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/12/88 00:58 Msg:1274 Call:8607 Lines:1 403 HOW DO YOU FEEL ABOUT SNIVELY WOMEN? 045=Usr:391 jim barp 03/12/88 07:35 Msg:1275 Call:8616 Lines:12 404 ************************************quill********************************** 405 BACKWATER IS THE PLACE WHERE SOCKS DISAPPEAR FROM THE WASHER. I OWN 406 A G.E. WASHER. I HAVE NEVER HAD THE SOCKS DISAPPEAR FROM ITS 407 INNER TUB. HOWEVER, ABOUT A MONTH AGO THE WHOLE THING QUIT 408 SPINNING. I CALLED ALL AROUND TOWN EVEN BACK TO THE EAST COAST 409 THEY TELL ME THE CLUTCH IS BAD. DID YOU KNOW THAT YOUR WASHER 410 HAS A CLUTCH? YOU DON'T BELIEVE ME? JUST CALL YOUR LOCAL 411 APPLIANCE REPAIR SHOP THEY'LL CONFIRM IT. YOUR WASHER HAS A 412 CLUTCH--I'LL BET YOUR SOCKS ON IT. SO GO OUT AND PUT THAT 413 WASHER IN GEAR AND TAKE ER FOR A SPIN. YOURS TRULY, 414 *(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*(*QUILL*(*(***(*(*(*(*(**(*(**(*((*(*(*(*(*(*(*(** 415@LINE 400 046=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/12/88 12:33 Msg:1276 Call:8624 Lines:3 416 This Is Phoenix Polymorph. New breakthroghs have been made in the science worl 417 d due to the missing sock mystory. Film at eleven wwiii u1 418 ^c 047=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/12/88 21:25 Msg:1277 Call:8648 Lines:32 419 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 12 Mar 88 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 420 To L'homme sans Parity: 421 It is presumpteous for me to address you, after having read only 422 one message in your conversation with Barefoot John, but otherwise I 423 will be troubled and restless, as I have been this last hour or so. 424 My response to you "flows and sparkles like crystal mountain water"-- 425 in my mind, that is. In reality, the keyboard looms like so many tiers 426 of Eygpt's famed pyramids, and my fingers fumble up and back, wondering 427 how I will convey my words. It seems necessary to generate a lot of dust 428 (verbage) to prove that a lot of effort (albeit just fretting and thinking) 429 went into climbing the pyramid, because in this medium, sincerity is hard 430 to convey. Aaargh, why am I trying?? You said "Life sometimes seems to 431 say that the only sure thing is that the fulfillment of desire will never 432 be obtained." Forgive me for taking that out of context, because how you 433 defined "desire" was good, taking it out of the realm of vulgarity and 434 touching on purer motives. Perhaps, a desire for justice or seeking for 435 the untainted joy of a very young child? Its the longing of the "true 436 believer" in your voice that touched me, the suggestion of your ideals 437 which have not yet been snuffed, that made me try to answer. But my 438 words are those of a simpleton; I would rather quote a far greater author. 439 "And he proceeded to call out in my ears with a loud voice, saying: 440 'HAVE those giving their attention to the city come near, each one with 441 his weapon in his hand for bringing ruin!' And look! there were six 442 men coming from the direction of the upper gate that faces to the north, 443 each one with his weapon for smashing in his hand; and there was one man 444 in among them clothed with linen, with a secretary's inkhorn at his hips, 445 and they proceeded to come in and stand beside the copper altar. 446 ...and he began calling out to the man that was clothed with the 447 linen, at whose hips there was the secretary's inkhorn. And Jehovah went 448 on to say to him: "Pass through the midst of the city, through the midst 449 of Jerusalem, and you must put a mark on the foreheads of the men that 450 are sighing and groaning over all the detestable things that are being 048=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/12/88 22:07 Msg:1278 Call:8649 Lines:20 451 done in the midst of it."--Ezekiel 9:1-4 452 You may find very little resemblance between this scripture and your 453 words expressing a wistful persistance in your search. I liken you to one 454 of the "men that are sighing and groaning" because "the land is filled 455 with bloodshed and the city is full of crookedness." (verse 9) Again, I 456 am presumpteous. But if you search for such "old-fashioned" values as 457 wisdom, justice and unselfish love: 458 "Jehovah is giving support to all who are falling, 459 And is raising up all who are bowed down. 460 To you the eyes of all look hopefully, 461 And you are giving them their food in its season. 462 You are opening your hand 463 And satisfying the desire of every living thing. 464 Jehovah is righteous in all his ways 465 And loyal in all his works. 466 Jehovah is near to all those calling upon him, 467 To all those who call upon him in trueness." --Psalms 145:14-18 468 469 L'homme, don't listen to me. Listen to Jehovah's Witnesses. 470 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- d -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 049=Usr:237 barefoot john 03/13/88 01:34 Msg:1279 Call:8654 Lines:18 471 ^~~~~`~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~~~`~~~~~^ 472 Well, this old tuna schooner might look like a piece of *hit from the 473 outside, but things aren't always what they seem. Just ask that foolhearty 474 band of malicious meddlers. Don't hold your breath waiting for an answer 475 though. 476 "Hay Skip, de ting make picture talk to you, say come quick need help." 477 "OK, bend some sail on this old girl while I try to get the world to stop 478 shifting around. I'll drop you off at lee cove. It's time to pay back a few 479 debts, maybe with a little interest as well." 480 A sly smile suggested the sweet taste of just-desserts, served with 481 continental flaire. Only the "Frenchman" could fully appreciate the exquisite 482 subtlety of such culinary delights. Since desire for freedom had overcome the 483 desire for power, he'd been lolling around the tropics in semi-retirement. It 484 was high time for a little excitement. A somewhat secure fortune had made him 485 "NOT FOR HIRE", but adventure with an element of danger thrown in would be just 486 right. This one was on the house. 487 ~bwanna j~ 488 ^~~`~~~~~^~~~^~~~`~`^~~~~^~~^^~~ ~~~^^~~~^~~~^~~`~~~~^~`~~~~~^~~`~~~~^ 050=Usr:237 barefoot john 03/13/88 07:24 Msg:1280 Call:8657 Lines:30 489 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 490 Don't you just love it? When one wishes to be emphatic and really 491 lay down a few heavy notes, first comes the disclaimer. "Now you 492 correct me if I'm wrong, but..." or "Now it's not me saying this, 493 you understand, I speak for a higher authority . . ." To really 494 appreciate the perfection of this technique you should live down 495 here in 'DIXIE, this is where it was invented. Don't get me wrong 496 now, I don't mean any disrespect you understand. Why it's down- 497 right entertaining. :-) "Just think a continental link", his mind 498 skipped merrily across the keyboard. 499 500 L'homme: Ah yes, the backwater swirls us all back into the same 501 pool again. As you can see, the meaning came to me in a flash. 502 There I was reading sideways, (never mind why) suddenly cured 503 of a severe case of opto-rectitus.:-) 504 Noting the correlation: capt'n barefoot with barefoot john, I'd 505 say the other player in this exchange is a backwater irregular. 506 Welcome aboard 'd' (you were reading on weren't you) your quite 507 elegant style is appreciated. 508 509 Perhaps one of the more important tests of a discipline or dogma 510 is to ask if it is 'Self Transcending'. if the answer is NO, it 511 should become suspect as a circular trap. 512 513 Let us not forget the implication of Goedel's theorem (pardon me 514 if I paraphrase poorly) 'No system is self justifying, one must 515 make a meta statement outside the system.' In this Meta statement 516 is contained the essential nature of the system. 517 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 518 051=Usr:237 barefoot john 03/13/88 07:46 Msg:1281 Call:8659 Lines:2 519 Spell-Check: Godel's 520 ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 052=Usr:23 Grann 03/13/88 09:20 Msg:1282 Call:8660 Lines:5 521 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 522 Hmmm.  Has BWMS been transported a few years into the past? The capt'n 523 and d on the same disk? 524 Now all we need is piper. I wonder if he's still lurking about? 525 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ Milch & Grann ++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 053=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 03/13/88 11:45 Msg:1283 Call:8664 Lines:5 526 Oh, but where would Pam be, wasn't she and the Rowan tree lost back in the 527 gensis of the new system? And there were many many others. Some of whom 528 were lost on the chip adventure. 529 530 054=Usr:329 mark Holdahl 03/13/88 18:09 Msg:1284 Call:8670 Lines:5 531 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-13-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>18:22> 532 In hie effort to find out why socks disapear from washing machines, Phoenix 533 Polymorph as, himself, vanished. Phoenix if you're out there, get back to the 534 istitute, you need to return your terminal. 535 18:24>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>wwiii 055=Usr:52 sandy mcgrath 03/13/88 19:17 Msg:1285 Call:8672 Lines:1 536 (((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))(((*)))((( Ripple )))(((*))) 056=Usr:399 Jane Ury 03/13/88 20:13 Msg:1286 Call:8678 Lines:12 537 Are there any BBS which are devoted to social concerns? 538 I'm new at this and I would like to find a system which 539 operates like a rapid-response network for things like 540 the anti-nuclear movement, environmental issues, 541 women's issues, etc. Can anyone help me? 542 543 Cervenka 544 P.S. As for the Lost Sock Triangle, they disappear 545 INTO THE MACHINE! Honest. They wrap themselves aroound 546 the machine's innards and reappear in ten years 547 or whenever you get the machine serviced, whichever comes 548 first. 057=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 03/13/88 22:22 Msg:1287 Call:8688 Lines:23 549 ******************************************************************* 550 I've seen Piper on the system occasionally. Pam I have neither 551 seen nor talked to for about eight or nine months. I'm afraid that 552 she has moved on to other (and hopefully better) things. 553 Of course, knowing her she could be on the system in the guise 554 of another. But that would mean a rather long distance call, 555 so I doubt that such is the case. 556 Hey, even Ripple is here (see line 536). Welcome! 557 To person above asking for a rapid response network bbs. 558 That depends on whether you are into local politics or something 559 a bit larger. If you want local, several of the local bbs's deal 560 in that, including this one. Blue Parrot is another. If you're 561 into something that gives access and feedback from people outside 562 the local area, you need to get on the Fido net or Usenet. 563 Usenet is available on the Unix systems. 564 565 It's been a rather interesting year here with BW struggling to 566 gain its new identity (and me struggling along with it). 567 Hard to believe that come May it will be one year old on the 568 new system, and almost six years old total. I wonder if it is 569 worth a celebration of some sort. Of course in keeping with 570 BW's proper form it can't be a pizza party. 571 ************************** CISTOP MIKEY ************************** 058=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/14/88 13:25 Msg:1288 Call:8709 Lines:32 572 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 14 Mar 88 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 573 You are most gracious, Capt'n Barefoot--in appreciating my style, 574 that is. In every other respect, I dub you a Backwater irreverent! 575 As a Backwater irregular, I could easily dodge your reply, but this 576 time I think I'll have some fun with it. 577 Allow me to define the issue, as I understand it. The three of 578 us are involved in a search for truth. Your approach (and perhaps 579 L'homme's) is philosophical, mine is built on an acceptance of belief 580 in God. The word 'philosophy' is derived from Greek roots that mean 581 "love of wisdom." Leaving out of account belief in God, it tries to 582 give people a unified view of the universe and endeavors to make them 583 critical thinkers. It employs chiefly speculative means rather than 584 observation in a search for truth. 585 But what is the origin of human philosophies? They come from 586 people who have LIMITATIONS. The Bible informs us: "It does not 587 belong to man who is walking even to direct his step." (Jeremiah 10:23) 588 History testifies that trying to ignore that limitation has not 589 produced good results. On one occasion, "Jehovah proceeded to answer 590 Job out of the windstorm and say: 'Who is this that is obscuring 591 counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up your loins, please, like 592 an able-bodied man, and let me question you, and you inform me. 593 Where did you happen to be when I founded the earth? Tell me, if 594 you do know understanding.'" (Job 38:1-4) 595 Humans by nature have limitations. Additionally, their experi- 596 ence in life is relatively brief and is usually confined to one 597 culture or one environment. The knowledge they possess is thus 598 restricted, and everything is interconnected to such an extent that 599 they constantly find aspects that they had not adequately considered. 600 Any philosophy that they originate will reflect these limitations. 601 Modesty means recognizing one's limitations; thus the reason 602 for a "disclaimer." I do not wish to misunderstand you, nor do I 603 shy from giving credit to the Higher Authority. 059=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/14/88 14:13 Msg:1289 Call:8710 Lines:16 604 Now, for "a few heavy notes." How can any of us acquire true 605 knowledge and wisdom? I contend that: "The fear of Jehovah is the 606 beginning of wisdom. All those doing them have a good insight." 607 (Psalms 111:10) 608 If the universe were not the product of an intelligent Creator 609 but only of some blind, irrational force, then no unified view of 610 the universe would be possible, would it? Nothing that would qualify 611 as wisdom could result from a study of something that was itself 612 irrational, could it? Those who attempt to understand the universe 613 or life itself, while endeavoring to leave God and his purpose out 614 of account, meet with constant frustration. They misinterpret what 615 they learn and misuse facts that they glean. 616 Leaving out of account belief in God destroys the key to 617 accurate knowledge and makes impossible any truly consistent 618 framework of thought. 619 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- d -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 060=Usr:245 Doug King 03/14/88 21:43 Msg:1290 Call:8724 Lines:4 620 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 621 Words to live by from Slug: You can pick your friends and you can pick your 622 nose, but you can't pick your friends nose. 623 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Bartender SLUG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 061=Usr:1 CISTOP MIKEY 03/14/88 23:45 Msg:1291 Call:8727 Lines:3 624 ************************************************************************* 625 Slug: That depends on how well you know your friend.... ;-) 626 ***************************** CM ****************************************** 062=Usr:47 John Dilks 03/15/88 00:00 Msg:1292 Call:8728 Lines:31 627 ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 628 To 'd' -- 629 Excuse me if I say so, but you have not presented much of an argument. 630 You use your belief in God as your proof for the existance of God. 631 That in itself proves nothing other than that you believe in God. 632 That is nothing more than a self serving statement. You are usinng your 633 belief to prove your belief. 634 Another item you state is that an organized structure is not possible 635 without an intellegence behind it and then use that to go on to prove 636 your point, yet you hve not proved your initial point of requiring an 637 intellegence to have an organised structure. Once again you are presuming 638 your belief as the basis for your arweement. 639 In my opinion, the belief of the existance or non-existance of God is not 640 something that can be proved or disproved through accepted logic convention. 641 Everytime I have heard the argument it has always started with the presumption 642 that God exists and then goes on to use that presumption to prove the 643 existance of God. A circular proof is not usually accepted as a logical 644 proof of anything. 645 Usually the only way that a proof can be stated is to state the proof 646 raset on constructs outside the structure you are attempting to prove. 647 Of course with typical religous dogma this is not possible because the 648 basic concept is that not only can we not step outside the concept of 649 God to determin the structure, but we are not even allowed to consider 650 approaching the domain of God. Thus they have managed to close their 651 universe and enforce a cyclic proof. 652 Hmmm reminds me of the old Star Trek episode "For the World is Hollow, 653 and I Have Touchud the Sky." When you deny the search for knowledge outside 654 the frame of reference it is easy to prove that your frame of existance 655 is the only form there is. Ignorance is not bliss. 656 -- John Dilks 657 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 063=Usr:400 ALICE COOPER ! 03/15/88 02:50 Msg:1293 Call:8729 Lines:17 658@***************************************** I FEAST ON LOTS OF BLOOD!!! I 659@VIOLATE ALL RULES AND EVEN YOUR KID 660@SISTER. I HATE NEW GQVE VAGGOTS. 661@I WANT TO TAKE A HATCHET TO THEIR HEADS. 662@I WANT TO PUT MY FIST TO THEIR FACE. 663@ 664@TAKE SOME HEDGE CLIPPERS TO THEIR NECKS. 665@AND STICK MY SIZE 14 BOOT UP THEIR #$%&!! 666@I WANT TO SMASH THEIR SKULLS WITH LOTS OF BRAIN OOZING OUT THE EARS. 667@ 668@ 669@H 670@I 671@C 672@I WANT TO STICK A PITCH-FORK UP THEIR NOSE.I WANT TO RAM MY KNEE INTO THEIR 673@I WANT TO SCOOP THEIR EYEBALLS OUT WITH A SPOON,LIKE THE WAY YOU CLEAN A CANTEL 674@PE.I WANT TO PEEL THEIR SKIN _FF,LIKE THE FRUIT ROLL-UPS.I'D DRY IT AND KNAW IT 064=Usr:11 L'homme sans Par 03/15/88 08:51 Msg:1294 Call:8735 Lines:49 675 *%()@*%#_!)*%_)@%*_)!#@%!)+_^*$_#)*^&)%*!^)$&(_)&*_)!*(^_)$#*!^)(%#!^#)^(_)$(^_ 676 Barefoot: I received your message via the mails. Sometimes I just sit back in 677 awe for the achievements of our society. To imagine that a piece of paper 678 placed in a small box can be transported from one side of the country to the 679 other in a few hours in exchange for a tiny piece f sylver is truly to 680 imagine a miracle. Folks of ages past would certainly consider such an act 681 to be in the realm of magic. 682 683 Your formatting, as always, impresses me. It is nice to see, for once, a 684 creature of flight that is not also a creature who bases its existence on 685 prey. In prey I mean that act that in any form steals a bit of soul, or 686 robs hopes from dreams, or changes th light of life into dark. Prey in the 687 form of words that written or said cast qgay dhe wish for life. "Sitting 688 in the early dawn light..." are words that do not prey. "...the reflecting 689 beauty of being" restore some of what is stolen by those things that prey. 690 691 Unfortunately, words and deeds of the dark side take bigger chunks of life 692 than words such as your attempt to restore. Perhaps my relationship to this 693 continual battle is askew, and that is the reason I always seem to take one 694 step forward and two steps back. On Friday your pages buoyed0my spirits. By 695 Monday, through other words and actions, I felt further behind than ever. 696 I wonder what would happen if no words of light and life came to that magic 697 outdoor box, or through another forms of high-tech magic. A soul can only 698 take so many two-steps back, before it has no where to step. 699 700 I grow weary of this battle, this conflict that rages between the creatures 701 of prey and the creatures of refresh and rebirth. On the outside, I am sure 702 all appearc fine, just as external views are seldom indicative of a system's 703 true state. The pain and damage is within. The kind of pain so difficult to 704 cure. Pain of the spirit, that injures deeply and usually irrecoverably. 705 706 "You can snap out of it!" "You wouldn't hurt if you didn't want to!" "You 707 won't open yourself to others!" "Aw, come on, everything will be ok." 708 I know the speakers of these words mean well, but their meanings fall on 709 ears that don't listen, and into a spiryt that can't seem to find the 710 strength to make the change. I know the magic of the modem and the mailbox 711 can't be applied to the human problems of character strength, or I, a 712 forever fan of technology, would have long ago applied it. 713 714@ A ship without 715@ 716 A ship with a broken engine and without a sail is doomed to float on a sea 717 of chance, rising and falling, floating or sinking, on the whim on that 718 sea, and perhaps, the small ability of the human on boqbd. 719 720 d, I don't wish to ignore you, but time must take me from this place. I will 721 return though, and talk about more of the things you discussed. Thank you 722 for your reply. 723 *&%$(#*%_)#@$%*@#_%*@_#)%*@#_)% L'homme sans Parity %&$(@#)_&*@_#*%@_)%*@)%*@ 065=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/15/88 11:34 Msg:1295 Call:8738 Lines:14 724 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 15 Mar 88 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 725 Bartender: Thats just the kind of logic I'd expect from a slug! 726 Iu txought I didn't like it? S'not so! I'll assuredly give you credit 727 as I repeat it... 728 L'homme, will you forgive me? Your words draw up the fear that 729 perhaps you are struggling in the miry cistern of depression, and what 730 you need are consoling words. So may I keep silent in awaiting your 731 response as to why you feel this way, for I have erred. 732 "When anyone is replying to a matter before [she] hears it, 733 that is foolishness on [her] part and a humiliation."0(Proferbs 18:13) 734 John Dilks, you must trust me to answer at another time. Proof 735 of the existence of God is truly the crux of the matter, and I intend 736 to offer it before your eyes. 737 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- d -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 066=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/15/88 18:39 Msg:1297 Call:8755 Lines:2 738 Phoenix Polymorph here: Still no word on the socks, but I'm working on it 739 ^C 067=Usr:401 Artificial Kid 03/15/88 19:19 Msg:1298 Call:8757 Lines:#3 740 ************************ 15 MARCH 88 *********************** 741 ===================== Chiba City Kid ==================== 742 - 743 Topic: "That was Zen, but this is now" 744 or Meta-statements give me a headache - 745 Godel's theorem certainly makes sense when applied to a formal system 746 such as number theory but can one really apply it to something as informal 747 as the "system" we call the universe? And if one is seeking to justify a 748 unified view of the universe weld not God be the most logical 749 meta-statement? Of course this then would lead to meta-gods, 750 meta-meta-gods, etc. in seeking to justify the existence of God. It seemed 751 to me that 'd', rather than seeking to prove God's existence on the basis 752 of his own belief in God, was instead seeking to justify the universe by 753 "jumping out of the system", using the axiom of an intelligent creator who 754 exists outside of the system and also happens to be the creator of the 755 "system". Certainly everyone has the right to reject this axiom but let's 756 hear a better one! 757 - 758 Regarding this concept of jumping outside of the system, Douglas Hofstadter 759 said: "Actually, in human affairs, it is often next to impossible to 760 break things neatly up into 'inside the system' and 'outside the system'; 761 life is composed of so many interlocking and interwoven and often 762 inconsistent 'systems' that it may seem simplistic to think of things 763 in those terms. But it is often important do formulate simple ideas very 764 clearly so that one can use them as models in thinking about more complex 765 ideas." 766 - 767 The key is to not mistake the model for reality. 768 - 769 The Artificial Kid 770 **************************** Chiba City Kid **************************** 771 772 - 068=Usr:245 Doug King 03/16/88 14:28 Msg:1299 Call:8775 Lines:7 773 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 774 My theory on missing socks is when0they are in the dryer the circular motion 775 sends them into a time warp. Sometime in the future suddenly socks are going 776 to appear on in one day. The world will come to a grinding halt because of the 777 socks everywhere. We won't be able to drive cars cause the socks will be so 778 thick on the roads. Airplanes won't be able to take off either. 779 <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< Bartender SLUG >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 069=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/16/88 16:22 Msg:1300 Call:8777 \ines*9 780 Am I on? Que logo...NOW! 781 THIS IS WORLD WATCH THREE>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>03-16-88>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>16:37> 782 Bartender Slug: Youre close, however the destination is random. Just think, 783 some day archeologists will find socks in some tomb some place. 784 . 785 Well, soething is causing weird charactors to show up on my screen (Must be the 786 BOC tape is TO LOUD), so I'm gone for now. 787 16:42>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>.>>>>>>>>wwiii 788 ^C 070=Usr:219 Friar Mossback 03/16/88 18:37 Msg:1301 Call:8782 Lines:21 789 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] 790 791 d - I think the point has been made a number of times about the 792 circular arguments you have used, but one more thing is the use of 793 biblical referents. It has been traditional on BWMS not to use 794 these quotes in a religion discussion, as the engender hostility 795 and dogmatism, depending on0ghich side you are on. A pretty 796 statement is not necessarily truth. 797 798 I do feel there is something more than this corporeal existence, but I 799 cannot prove that, nor can I really define it. "IS", "God", "Budda", or 800 "Collective Subconcious" (As opposed to the collective unconcious, the 801 aftermath of a frat party) 802 These are all names given to that something there is beyond us. If there 803 is more than this life, is it important to know about it? The religious 8 4 amng us say "Absolutely" and if you don't know about my way, thn you 805 are doomed to die. 806 But is that really the case? Could a kind loving God just damn us forever 807 just for not paying attention? I don't know. 808 [][][][][][][][][][][][][][][] Friar [][][][][][][][][][][][][] 809 071=Usr:272 Talos 03/16/88 22:56 Msg:1302 Call:8795 Lines:14 810 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> 811 This search for truth is interestyng in a strange way. Personally, I follow 812 my own style of life and take it day by day. I set no standards to uphold other 813 than common decency and good manners. I don't necessarily "believe" in anything 814 other than I'm here and I gotta make sense of this shit. My personaly axiom is 815 "Nothing Is Impossible." Given time of couse, anything can be made possible. 816 So in my life I try to do all I can to achieve happiness. Whether that's buying 817 a cheeseburger or climbing a mountain, I d it0to my fullest capabilities, and 818 enjoy it to the fullest. Life is only what you make of it so make the verses 819 rhyme and all the pieces fit. The isn't much time you can make sense of it 820 because it's always moving. So don't stop moving and don't take anything too 821 seriously. Enjoy. 822 Talos 823 <*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*><*> 072=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/16/88 23:16 Msg:1303 Call:8796 Lines:19 824 Txis ic Phoenix Polymorph. Screw the socks for now... 825 At one time I also searched for the truth, but never knew what IT was I was sea 826 rching for. Eventually the search led me into the occult, a brief endeavour th 827 at took me basicly no where (any one want some Tarot cards? Low milage?). Mus 828 ic came next. Seeking knowledg from fools and from sages. This helped a littl 829 e, but still left me saying"So that's how I shuld live, but what the hell am I 830 doing here?". I still listen0to }y music, but I found a new escape for myself: 831 I ignore reality and live on various differant 'planes of reality'. This is on 832 e of them. another I play drums for a rock band. 833 I still don't know 'WHY', and right now, sadly, I don't cabe. I guess deep d 834 own I figure if I quit looking, I'll find it... 835 = 836 = 837 "I've still not found why I'm lookin' for" 838 points if you can tell me where that is from. 839 = 840 = 841 Phoenix out 842 ^C 073=Usr:3 Ramek0 03/17/88 22:37 Msg:1304 Call:8832 Lines:37 843 ----------------------------------------------------------------- 844 I'm not sure why people want to personalize the concept of 845 God, or why they want to put limits on life. Maybe it is to 846 define the limits of their lives, to build nice cozy little 847 shells around themselves. 848 And of course by demanding that others follow their rules, 849 they can control them. Which perhaps is another reason for it. If 850 yoe0don7t believe in their rules then you are of no importance, 851 and if you do they can control your life. Don't think for 852 yourself, just do as they say. follow the leader and don't even 853 think of possibly being a leader yourself moving in your own 854 direction, that is wrong. 855 Maybe that is why I don't like religion, it closes in on 856 you, limits what you can know and do. You are not allowed to 857 question and explore beyond the limits they set. If you try you 858 are tld you are evil. I have never believed that others should 859 set limits on what people can or cannot do. We must be free to 860 grow and expand ourselves. There is nothing wrong in reaching out 861 towards God to try to become as God. It is my belief that that is 862 the true destiny of mankind, to become one with the universe. 863 I think that is why I have always tried to help people grow 864 and better themselves, in my own small way it is how I am trying 865 to help them achieve thad goa|. To help them in their path 866 towards a better existence. It is not because I am selfless, I do 867 it because I hope that they will help me in turn. And in most 868 cases I have been rewarded. As the saying goes, what I put out I 869 get back three fold increased. 870 I suppose you could call it karma, though I don't believe in 871 it specifically as the definition puts it. I see it as simply 872 that people will treat you as you treat them. If you treat them 873 well, on a who|e they will treat you well. Sooner or later a 874 circumstance will happen where they can do something good for you 875 with little or no work on their part, and when that happens they 876 will remember your kindness and return the favor. It takes no 877 effort on my part to be kind and considerate, and it can bring so 878 much in return. 879 ----------------------------- Ramek ----------------------------- 074=Usr:11 L'homme sans Par 03/18/88 02:31 Msg:1305 Call:8838 Lines:1 880 U2 says "I still haven't found what I'm looking for." 075=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/18/88 15:30 Msg:1306 Call:8845 Lines:7 881 ------------------------------------------------- 882 Raise your can of beer on high 883 and seal your fate forever. 884 Our best years have passed us by 885 the golden age of leather. 886 ------------------------------------------------- 887 ^C 076=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/18/88 23:38 Msg:1307 Call:8861 Lines:18 888 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 18 Mar 88 -=*=- -=*=- 0-=*=- -=*=- 889 How ready the Inn patrons prove to be, when it comes to leaping into 890 a fray! May I thank you all for your responses regarding the search for 891 truth: such curiousity is readily kindled in an honest heart. 892 CC Kid, thank you for defending the fairness of my approach. I bow 893 to your knowledge on the subject of meta-statements--I had to be briefed 894 by the dictionary, myself! 895 Posing the question once again: How can any of us acquire true wisdom? 896 I aver dxat the Bible *is* worthy of consideration on such a serious 897 matter. The Bible itself says it is from God, mankind's Creator; please 898 grant this book it's own voice: "All Scripture is inspired of God 899 and beneficial for teaching, for reproving, for setting things straight, 900 for disciplining in righteousness, that the man of God may be fully 901 competent, completely equipped for every good work." (2 Timothy 3:16,17) 902 If there is a God, we'd naturally expect God's message to all man{ind 903 to be available around the globe. The Bible, the whole or in part, has 904 been translated into some 1,800 languages. Its circulation totals in 905 the billions, outstripping every other book. 077=Usr:397 dragon lady 03/19/88 00:21 Msg:1308 Call:8862 Lines:26 906 More than the bold claim of inspiration, it tackles issues that often 907 politicians and teachers steer clear of: (1) Bible prophecy explains 908 the meaning of world conditions. Many world leaders acknowledge that )09 mqnkind is on the brink of disaster. The Bible foretold these condi- 910 tions long ago; it explains their meaning and what the outcome will be. 911 (2) The Bible enables us to understand the purpose of life. I cannot 912 help but be drawn to the wistful tone in your message, Phoenix, asking 913 'why are we here?' and the unspoken query in Talos' philosophy 'is it 914 just to live a few years, get what we can out of life, and then die?' 915 The Bible answers such questions. 916 A final reason0for considering the Bible: it shows how we can have 917 the very things that lovers of righteousness desire most. For example, 918 it tells us where to find wholesome associates who truly love one 919 another (John 13:35), what can give assurance that we will have 920 sufficient food for ourselves and our families (Matthew 6:31-33; 921 Proverbs 19:15; Ephesians 4:28), and how we can be happy in spite of 922 difficult conditions that surround us.--Psalms 1:1,2; 34:8; Luke 11:28; 923 Acts 20:35. Rut what of the future? It explains that God's Kingdom, 924 his government, will remove the present wicked system (Daniel 2:44), 925 and under its rule mankind will be able to enjoy perfect health and 926 eternal life.--Revelation 21:3,4; compare Isaiah 33:24. 927 Do you say, OUTRAGEOUS?! Who could promise all that? 928 Surely a book that claims to be from God, that explains both the 929 meaning of world conditions and the purpose of life, and that shows 930 how our problems will be solved yc *worthy of consideration*. 931 -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- d -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- -=*=- 078=Usr:379 Phoenix Polymorp 03/19/88 01:30 Msg:1309 Call:8863 Lines:23 932 THIS IS...bag it. 933 Has anyone given considderation to what is out 'there'? There being The Great 934 Beyound. Is it posable that there *is* a Heavan and Hell, in a non-religious 935 sense? It is said that even the gods have gods. Could it be that God created 936 us, and he is only a child and the Earth is a dust-mte yn the sun that shines 937 in his bedroom window? Is the devil his evil brother? It is said (some place 938 in Revilations) that the sky will be ripped open, and God'll peek in. Could 939 this be taken as a rip in the dimensional fabric, and, indeed, there is a time 940 out of space? (please parden my lack of paragraphing) I am a believer of God, 941 yet I still belteve things that are not to othodox . Such that our God is 942 a loving god and won't damn a soul to hell for not knowi~g (ie. people that 943 haven't heard of His religion, or an infant that dies befor he can know Him) an 944 d allows at least another chanc. Hence re-incarnation. I admit, I am quite 945 a day-dreamer, and theorised simultainious lives. People talk about 'past live 946 s' but never 'future lives', I mean with this regression thing they do, has it 947 never occured to them to 'progress' a person? May-be I'm just mad, or it could 948 be 2a.m. wow kicking in. I don't know. Could even be the beer I0dra~k earlier 949 but what I guess I'm trying to say is that it may be possable for no man to gai 950 n that ultimate wisdom I once saught. 951 Please, think about what has been said on this disk, and not forget it when the 952 y change to a new one.0 Yassassin. 953 Phoenix Pollymorph 954 ^C 079=Usr:237 barefoot john 03/19/88 05:45 Msg:1310 Call:8866 Lines:45 955 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 956 DUCK! DUCK? proclaimed the hunters, we'll have0come fun with this 957 foul. QUACK, QUACK, QUACK, resounded the capt'n from the aft deck 958 of the 'humorous Truth'. Y'see, some folks plumb forgot serious 959 and sincere are not synonymous. When one presumes 960 to know thu nature of another, it tends to impede the flow of new 961 aspects big communicated. 962 963 [Sincere Mode ON] 964 Relationship is a fundamental nature of reality. Many and varied 965 are its forms. Just look at the 'backwater', relationship is0what 966 brings us to this reflective pool. Now we're cookin' folks. It's 967 wonderful to see many of you reveal some of your inner self, and 968 such a rich diversity. Some take the path of belief, others wish 969 to explore various aspects of understanding. Both can be equally 970 valid personal expressions, neither seems proper to impose upon 971 another. I would suggest the most human approach is to encourage 972 each person to discover their own nature, and to know 'treth' and 973 happiness.(Perhaps they are all aspect of the same relationship) 974 975 Chiba AK ---- WELL put. That was exactly the point of the'tounge 976 in cheek' reference to Godel. Duality of creator and created is 977 actualized by the concept of separate self. Amazing how writers 978 of many 'artifical stupidity' programs seem to forget Shannn's 979 theorem indicating a becomes unpredictable when 980 exposed to unfiltered input, such as direct experiencu. Nw, let 981 us (cast) another model. Is the process of changing one's belief 982 somewhat similar to modifying the 'operating system' while it's 983 running? Could be a reasonable metaphor, within its boundary of 984 course. DO! continue, I appreciate your thoughts... 985 986 L'homme ---- My friend, you stand balanced on the cutting edge of 987 Occam's razor. Look inside the main cabin, is that several bags 988@ 989 the wheel, i'll whistle for the wind. Even an o|e' sea dog gets 990 a little looney becalmed in the 'horse latitudes'. < . . . 995 { <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< /* capt'n barefoot */ >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> } 996 Correction: Is that several bags of sails I see; of fine cut & cloth. 997 Bend on some canvasc and take the wheel... 998 999 I got those ole' download blues down ...From Suck Creek